Here we go

I've read my post again I can't see any hint of a mention of an ulterior motive. Can you point me at what you were referring to?

Restoring a semblance of normality is achieved by doing normal things. We don't normally all wear masks, despite there being air borne diseases for our entire existence as a species. This is the exact opposite of normality.

 

This take is funny as for years the police and government have railed against people wearing masks at demonstrations because they were "trouble makers" intent on hiding their identity after committing acts of violence". Now they're apparently oppressing people by doing the opposite.

Weird.

 

Yesterday I went shopping with the wife in Meadow hell... Yes Hell.... Hell by name hell by nature....
Yellow jackets (high vis) everywhere directing you telling you where to stand.. Reminding you to sanitise ... Informing you to follow the directional arrows on the floor... Like ants folk trudged.like sheep they followed.. Artificial plants dividing the area in many places creating two lanes.. Food hall sectioned off with barriers and swarming with little hittlers basking in their new found power of control.telling you where to go where to stand.. . Loudspeaker announcements every 15mins or so it seemed
supposedly to remind and inform you of your responsibility but coming across to me as the German 3rd reich propaganda machine such was the tininess and echo on the speakers and the fact the crowds weren't there to absorb the noise... on one occasion I fully expected to go round the corner to be met by a division of SS troops with folk being lined up against the wall and shot... I kid you not... It was so surreal.... you see such stuff on old war movies when the loudspeakers are on the top of the car/truck driving through the streets... It felt like I was there in the streets of France etc...

Yes it can be leveled that I have a vivid imagination but from the bottom of my heart that's exactly how it seemed and it felt so real...
Am I adding to this situation of division that is eroding our civil liberty by wearing a face covering and complying with these morrons who to me just seem to throw the dice and if they get a double six they employ a safety procedure that some one some where dreams up without proof of success or proper testing
Yes I feel at times the mask is effective especially when you see folk openly coughing without covering their mouths.. Witnessed one Asian bloke doing exactly that in morrisons in Wakefield on Monday.. he stood out because everyone in there apart from staff were wearing masks and in most cases gloves too... ... And yet I feel that the mask whilst protecting cuts down and hides that friendly smile that reassures most when dealing with and meeting strangers...
I think at times we are not being allowed to think for ourselves and are being slowly led towards mass vaccination and more government control... further eroding our rights.and implementing the elites ideals against our will. Even a cashless society is on the horizon...
What finally added insult to injury was the young Asian lad who,was sorting out my new phone contract... yesterday who whilst we were having a bit of banter and discussing the steps implemented in the shop due to the virus... stated.. all these now having to wear a mask might just stop harassing Muslim woman who wear face coverings.. to think our beliefs might be on to something....


Off subject...

I have no objection to folk doing what they want as long has it doesn't impact and effect others ideals and push their beliefs and ideology as a second agenda
..whilst I do think it is derogatory and disrespectful to the Asian woman who in most cases are pressurised to wear face coverings by their elders and family members and the way woman are treated in general in the Muslim community
That said maybe it was me who took his comments out of context and the situation in medow hell was p*ssing me off.. but it struck a cord and if I'm honest I wasn't happy with my own feelings or thoughts and for the first time wanted to scream... But me and the wife aren't F... ING Asian.. Just like I wanted to scream I can think for myself without been told what to do...
It will be a long time before I go back .... It wasn't an enjoyable morning out...
If that's the future for shopping there I will be finding other places to shop...

 

Increase in masks, aka germ collectors because people will constantly touch the mast to adjust it. Then spread the germs on their hands. Also, they are not free so those living in poorer areas may reuse the disposable ones defeating the object of them..

Whilst loads of people have bought designer ones with logos and to look cool will probably only wash em once or twice a week.. Storing up all those germs and transferring them everything they touch the mask.

Without a mask, the germs would die off very quickly airborne killed by the suns uv rays.

Science done behind this decision is flawed becuase it only looks at it from a single disposable use perspective from what I have seen when many people are using home made or the non disposable time. So on top of that as above they don't factor in peoples behaviour..

 

Bingo. The science and evidence they use for it is based on masks being worn correctly for short periods of time and doesn't take all the flaws into account.

 

Yes I think you can, like you said " essential for life" both in terms of eating and the safety of the shoppers and the ones who are working probably 8 hours a day in these stores, I personally don't get the issue with it whatsoever, its a face covering, its their to prevent the spread of the virus how can it not be a good thing ? ( a bit late imo btw) but I dont think wearing a mask once or twice a week to get your essentials is going have any impact on your health. My point was that I dont think it infringes on people's rights

 

I take your point but there's a few things I'd say. Toby Foster had the MP Miriam Cates on the radio this morning. She confirmed that shoppers must wear them but ship assistants don't need to. His response to her was perfect. A shopper I'd n the store for half an hour has to wear a mask to stop their breath from getting into the air but the shop assistant in there for 8 hours can breathe out all day long.

Her reply was brilliant. She said something along the lines of that it is being brought in to protect the ship assistants and the reason they don't have to wear them is that they have suffered the most through this pandemic with an higher rate of casualties. In other words the reason they don't wear them is that too many retail workers have caught covid-19 and it's unfair to now force them to wear masks, instead they want to make it as comfortable as possible for them.

Hang on. This is a Tory MP admitting that shop assistants have a higher than average level of infections and that is a reason why they SHOULDNT wear a mask? You couldn't make it up.

On the issue of why I don't think it's a good thing see a few posts further up. It gives a false sense of security and I think it will mean people actually spreading the virus more

 

The wearing of masks in shops has nothing to do with the old or the vulnerable any more than the lock down was. They masks are to protect shop workers and the lock down to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed
Why do you seek to turn this whole sorry business into the strong versus the weak
Is it just because you don’t fancy wearing a mask for a half hour whilst you get your spuds?

 

You don't think lockdown was to protect the vulnerable?

Other than having a dig and saying old versus young can I have your actual opinion on whether or not you think the people most at risk should be forced to wear the more protective masks that would protect them while others are being forced to wear masks to try to protect them?

 

Civil liberties are usually perceived to have been taken away for disingenuous reasons. If you don't think this is the case, then I'm even more baffled as to your objections.

 

No the lock down was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed. You insist that people are being forced to wear masks to protect those at risk when then the stated intent is to protect shop workers.
Are we getting down to the heart of it when YOU say old and young when the words I actually used were strong and weak.
And how do you justify claiming that having to wear a mask is infringing your liberties and then advocating another group should be forced to wear one

 

It's to protect the generally young shop workers? If you believe that you'll believe anything. It's to protect the vulnerable because that's what makes sense.

Instead of trying to reverse a question why not actually answer one?

 

I have addressed your questions which is more than you have graced to do with mine

 

A couple of general points aimed at no-one in particular.

Personally i look at all of this stuff through a David Brailsford marginal gains lens. Face coverings *potentially* have the ability to reduce the overall rate of transmission slightly, and taken *alongside* other measures have the ability to help significantly.

Unfortunately, to labor the analogo, it's like reducing the weave on your cycle shorts to save 3 grams when you're trying to cycle up Alpe D'Huez on a chopper given the government's continual failings on COVID_19.

My experience of face coverings so far are they are horrible but I have and will continue to do so where required. Will it impact on choices I make? More than likely as I probably will avoid shops even more because of the extra layer of unpleasantness they bring. This will further impact on the already bleak economic recovery.

That said if as a marginal gain they help us avoid the public health and economic catastrophe of another lockdown then it may be worth it to mask the government's broader failings on other issues. Again, to stretch the cycling reference, the current blanket strategy of restrictions on all is a bit like David Brailsford giving all his riders an inhaler and reducing the dosage for the one asthmatic.

Although inhalers have in them steroids, right.....

A final point. Be kind. Everyone has the one measure they find hard to stomach. Plenty of people have suggested they will point blank refuse to use any apps that support track and trace due to their own privacy concerns, and I'm sure everyone has bent the guidance to their own personal circumstances.

 

You haven't answered whether you believe the vulnerable should be forced to wear the other grade masks when in public to stop themselves from dying

 

I will be happy to answer this question if you can justify why you would defend your perceived rights by forcing others to do what you don’t want to have to

 

Because I very nearly lost my job which in turn would possibly mean losing my house. I locked myself in the house with no contact for so long

I did all this to save lives. I think it's utterly stupid to not make those at highest risk of dying have to take a few additional steps which are proven to help save their own lives

 

Bet the doctors and nurses that worked all hours putting their own lives at risk and their family lives on hold are well chuffed when folk talk about a bit of minor inconvenience when they are out and about!
Why can’t people see if you can stop the spread it gives the NHS time to tske a breath and help people with other problems.At the end of the day it’s buying time until somebody gets a vaccine sorted.

 

They changed their minds on mask use after evidence that airborne transmission of Covid 19 is more prevalent than was first thought. FFS why is it even an argument wearing a mask won't kill you Covid 19 just might. Try exercising your civil liberties from the inside of a coffin whether it's 6ft under ground or just about to be placed in a bloody big oven at Ardsley crem.

 

In answer to your question, you will not be surprised to read that I do not believe that the vulnerable should be forced to wear a mask as you prescribe. From what I have observed the vulnerable have taken steps to look after themselves, except for those many thousands that died in care homes.
I trust you are getting back on an even keel and good luck for the future