EU Army..

Sounds like the Wicker most weekends in sheffield..

 

You know you have no idea what Hitlers ideology is when you can’t even spell his name.

Not to go all ‘grammar police’ but it’s fairly simple; for the record... Hitlers ideology was based on a master race, a belief that people were genuinely inferior based on where they were born, what god they worshipped or how healthy they were.

Does that sound more like Angela Merkel or Nigel Farage to you?

 

25 out of 28 signed up to it mate

 

That is democracy? We didn't join the single currency or or Schengen. Your post suggests as members of the EU we don't have a veto. That is incorrect. Good luck with your conspiracy theories, a lot of people are falling for them, which is depressing.

 

Seeing as I get the same sort oif response when I say I voted leave, I'll have a go at engaging with you and answering the points you raised. It's an important issue and should be subject to a good airing in case we don't leave.
I have five main objections to the idea of a unified EU military
1. It has a potential to undermine NATO. Hopefully Trump may not be around much longer but who knows who they will vote in next. He has made noises about NATO members not pulling their weight in terms of budget spending. Imagine if the US got fed up if the countries he criticised starting tailoring forces to an EU mandate rather than a NATO one. Simple fact, I'd rather chuck my lot in with the US and Canada when it comes to defence than Belgium/Sweden/Hungary etc
2. There will be contracts to be handed out for standardised EU equipment. Who will get them? I think there will be some political motivation/horse trading rather than getting the best kit available and they will be EU countries only most likely which could lead to a dumbing down of equipment as we wont be buying from the two world leaders in arms supplies (the USA and the UK)
3. What exactly does the EU intend to do with its armed forces? The only PESCO signatories who arent in NATO (off the top of my head) are Sweden and Eire, countries with a long standing history of neutrality. As NATO already offers a very effect defence to the other 23 I can only see there being some other motive beyond defence be imputed long term
4. The EU is a seperate interlocuter on the global stage in its own right. Its history of foreign affairs isnt all that great. Look at the noises it made to the Ukraine about being west leaning prior to what was undoubtely Russian military intervention and encouraging Bosnia to seek independence then blocking US military aid to it when the imbalance in equipment put Bosnia at a significant disadvantage. What hamfisted foreign intervention will having its own military capacity encourage it to do
5. We are the second largest net contributer to the EU budget. Anything that expands it just means more expense for us

 

The problem is they arent conspiracies. Uncomfortable truths more like. Just read for yourself some of the material on this I mentioned in my long post. Most of the material I researched in deciding how to vote actually came from the EU itself. It spouts out more PDFs and press releases than Wednesday have fans. as for veto, watch the first episode of the BBc documentary "The Cameron years". He vetoed a treaty and they ignored him and did it anyway

 

This is just not true.

For a start I'm very sure that we need a decent relationship with Europe, whether we leave or don't. We were the only country in the EU that got directly involved in Iraq, although Spain, Netherlands, Portugal & a few other countries backed the USA at the UN. This in itself shows the EU is not a military bloc in any sense of the word. It is a trading bloc. Germany & France may be in favour of making some sort of separate military alliance, but there is no factual evidence to prove this can be backed up. The real elephants in the room are China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel & Iran, all of whom, we as a separate "sovereign state" have little power to influence outside the EU & NATO.

 

Might watch that at some point, but the guy makes my blood boil. Which Treaty?

 

Mate he makes my blood boil aswell. However, it is one of the rare moments we occasionally get treated to when politicians stop grandstanding and drill down on the facts. Well worth a watch.

It is clear we arent going to agree but I hope you feel I have not been discourteous to you in raising my opinions, they are just that. I respect your rights to have an opinion and feel rather sad that the Brexit prompts such a venal response on either side of the debate. Anyway, more importantly I hope Mr Lee has contrived to lay on a better match day experience tomorrow than he did on saturday

 

If you want to be really depressed take a look at the comments section on any Brexit related articles on the Daily Mail website.
The sheer volume of ridiculous, clueless, ill informed rubbish posted on there is mind boggling. You can't credit that there are so many people wandering around totally ignorant of the world around them and brainwashed by tabloid soundbites. It's frightening.

 

I don't fall out with people about stuff like this, there is no point. I do respect other people's views, but will state my own as well if I disagree. The forum would be boring if we all agreed. I don't go in for personal abuse, unless something is racist or deeply personal, which did on one occasion got be a weeks ban on here, which was fair enough, when someone insinuated me lying about my Great Grandfather, someone who I had massive respect for & was one of the last survivors of the Somme. I have sent messages to many people I've had heated debates with to go for a pre or post match pint at some point, as I'm sure beyond our avatars there are more things that we have in common than divide us, primarily coming from Barnsley & our support of the team.

 

All fair play mate. Judging by your name we probably both date back to oakwell in the early seventies. We call it now but they were grim times for the club

 

Both Brown and Miliband knew though that they dare not offer it for decision by referendum as it would have been rejected.
In the case of the EU Army, the idea of a UK veto, I would say most people thought was the case, but Cameron admitted the only veto was on UK participation.

 

No more clueless in many cases than those in the Grauniad, Huff or Indy...the only thing I would say is that the spelling is better in the Remain papers....with the exception of the Grauniad editorial obviously.

 

I haven't read the Guardian or the Independent SB but I seriously doubt there are as many who are as downright thick. There are an astounding number who think that Ireland is still, somehow, part of the UK. A far greater number who believe that Ireland should simply do what they're told and another tranche who seem to think that the best thing for Ireland to do would simply be to rejoin the UK.
It's not that they have a different view of the facts but that they simply have not the understanding of or will not accept the facts.

 

I’m no expert on the EU and I’m a fan of the BBC, but I watched that documentary and it was far from accurate;
I’ll not bang the same old drum but I know for a fact at least one of Cameron’s we’ll publicised ‘demands’ was something we already have control of. Yet it was openly discussed in that documentary as if we had no control.
Cameron’s shopping list was a sham, unfortunately the EU refused to play along because pretending to favour one member would damage them as much as actually favouring one.

 

It’s not the fingers.

 

The even more depressing thing is that many comments aren't even real. Content created for the illusion that there are huge volumes of sentiment in a particular direction. Pure social media driven propaganda. Just yesterday I searched for a cartoon depicting the vast amounts of wealth and the non dom status of the daily hatred, express etc. I've seen it numerous times... can't find it now. Yet many images depicting the heroism of those publications, particularly against issues such as Brexit, the EU and migration. It wouldn't be a quantum leap to assume time and money is being spent to distort search algorithms and what people are able to find. Whether that is just done by papers, or tech companies, or the true structures that are completely in the realm of dark corners where no light can be cast.... its not possible to know.

 

The Express isnt a non dom. Its owned by Reach Plc.