EU Army..

In which case the banana is straight, when going in & out. Maybe Brexit could be linked to Barnsley's status in the championship, with us leaving & rejoining on a regular basis. Two problems solved in one post 52-48 is my number.

 

It is rather ironic reading all these comments about the OP. Google or check on Wikipedia :
Permenant Structured Cooperation (PESCO).
Also check the EUs own website there is a pdf on there that describes their aspirations for the coming parliament term. There is every intention of having a unified EU defence capability. You can also follow this link to the UK parliamentary library briefing document
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8149
Juncker described the realisation of pesco as the birth of the child of the lisbon treaty which created a mutual defence clause.
The EU is a superstate within itself. Pesco had been coming for a long time. I personally think it has the capacity to undermine NATO in the long term. the UK has opted out but we'd still be paying for it if we stayed in and it's unclear what a commited to stay in UK would be forced to do in support of this. You all might like the idea of some EU superstate army under the direct control of the EU. That's your choice but most of the responses I've read indicate you simply don't know about this. I can't blame you cos like a lot of the EUs dark corners it doesn't get reported on.

 

TTIP? Blocked by us and others. Same situation with an EU army. It won't happen.

 

Now you’re getting warm in your very last sentence... whatever reason would our right wing oligarch tax avoiding mega rich non domicile media barons have for suppressing news in all forms about the EU?

I travel to Europe frequently, there are huge amounts of news content on the continent... for some reason, the only news fed to the mouths of UK babes is negative and prejudiced.

Anyone would think our self regulating media want people to think the way they want them to.

 

I don't think it's wise to go in without using a backstop

 

Yes of course they will. Definitely. Yes.

 

Have you done any reading on it? . Nobody wanted the Lisbon treaty but we all got it. The Irish had a referendum and kept having one until they delivered the right result - sound familiar? This isn't ttip. That involved a third party, they can do this on their own. Google pesco. The first entry after Wikipedia is a release by the European defence agency (part of the EU) on the EU website as to what they are on with.

 

Yes they do mate. Only thing is, like I say dark bits about the EU don't get reported on by liberal elite controlled media in hock to big business which is the real beneficiary of the EU. 6.5 % corporation tax in the EU sponsored tax haven of Luxembourg anyone?? Suits you Starbucks, Amazon, eBay. You want a soft loan to build a transit factory in turkey to close the one in Southampton, roll up ford, the ECB have £120 million with your name on it, pay us back when you feel like it, it's a sweeter to turkey to join a customs union with the EU (made in 2011 when pre erdogan turkey was being courted)

 

“The liberal elite controlled media.” FFS!
As my physics teacher once said about my exam result. “Not even worthy of comment.”

 

Are you saying the BBC, Channel 4, the Guardian, the Mirror and the Times and the Economist (both of which I subscribe to BTW) are all right wing?

Also don't just completely ignore any arguments that criticise the EU, regardless of how well founded they are, do some research, make a counter argument - always happy to hear a reasoned one. When the referendum was called I was genuinely split which way to vote and went off and did my own research. Both sides were given to hyperbole so I ignored both. Just as it wasnt possible to quantify the £350 million on the bus it also wasnt possible to quantify in Cameron's letter to each household telling them how much worse off they'd be if we voted leave. You also had the Chancellor lying to us we'd have an emergency budget if the result was leave.

When I drilled down into the workings of the EU, some of the things it does (which don't get widely reported) what it was intending to do going forward (including the EDA and PESCO), scrapping rebates etc I also read a load of academic papers about the Greek eurozone crisis, I reached a conclusion our continued membership would not be in our long term interest. Since then I read Yanis Vourafakis' book and cemented my view. That is just my view. Since then I have been subjected to a sort of fascism from people who I genuinely can't fathom what it is about the EU they positively like.

This board has its fair share of left wing people (doubtless its heritage) and when one looks at some of the doyens of the left that supported leave I scratch my head even more eg. Tony Benn, Frank Field, Dennis Skinner and lets face it Corbyn and Len McKluskey together with the Socialist Worker's Party (who backed leave). 15 years ago the Lib Dems backed having a referendum, now they would ignore the result altogether. I think UKIP and the right wing of the tories havent helped, just cos they back it doesnt make it automatically wrong (I personally wish they wouldn't) the liberal elite knee jerk oppose them and anything they espouse - even if they might be right for the wrong reasons. The longer this goes on the more polarised its going to get sadly, shouldnt happen to us though, we have more depressing things to contend with

 

We signed the Lisbon Treaty (or Gordon Brown & David Milliband did), after 6 years of negotiation. There are things in that agreement I'm not massively keen on, but to say it was imposed on is isn't correct. We could have vetoed, or not joined, like we did with the single currency & Schengen. Same would be the case with an EU army, which I really can't see many member states signing up to.

 

Which is why I couldn’t bring myself to vote with both sides being a set of lying bleeders(shakes head at the whole affair)

 

My bananas straightening less and less these days

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en There you go. Light on all the dark corners, watch live, updates galore. The lack of transparency of the Eu is a myth and has much more transparency than our house of commons. Indeed, the lack of detail from government, even when ordered by the supreme sovereign body, parliament, is shockingly contemptable. Recall the EU published all their negotiating parameters for Brexit negotiations in just days and agreed and published the full withdrawal agreement, and ran through it in detail live which was broadcast across all of Europe but was cut short here. We have hardly published anything, all documents that have made their way into the public domain have been through EU publication or direct legal requests made of the govt by parliament or courts.

Luxembourg is a country. a very impressive country, with many businesses. It can do what it wants. Just as Ireland is. Just as the Uk is. Are these all owned by the EU? Of course not! I thought people wanted "sovereignty"? No? Starbucks et al are companies, they make commercial decisions for their shareholders. Sheffield had huge amounts of Objective 1 money to attract business, then the conservative government closed down the RDA's so undid much of that work. So is Sheffield an EU sponsored tax haven?

Ford is American. Did you ever visit the Dagenham plant? It wasn't fit for purpose. So Ford will do whatever is in its interests. In a world outside the EU we'll lose a lot more businesses who can't be competitive here.

Turkey have not fulfilled a single stage of the requirements for EU accession. Turkey will not be an EU member in our lifetimes. And if they did, so what? Are you against Turkish people? We'll not be in the EU so it won't be an issue for anyone then, will it? Hard working people, relocating through free movement to do jobs, gain skills, provide for families... doesn't sound a very dark scary place at all to me.

And if you think our media is a liberal elite, I really don't know what to say.

 

You really have swallowed the kool aid. The right wing idiots who spoon feed you such ***** don’t shine a light on the EU’s dark places the EU is an open transparent organisation. There is zero chance that the UK will join an EU army if we remain in it. A few EU politicians aspire to it many of the larger more influential countries do not. For the UK given our veto it’s irrelevant. Again TTIP you have read without understanding. It was rejected as politically unpalatable by the EU the UK on the other hand was one of the prime movers behind it.

Many on the left opposed the EU we still do in part but the UK has veered to the extreme right it has brought it focus that whilst it has its issues it also offers protections.

 

I saw this on Facebook. I don't even know where to start...

 

People that make, share and believe these things have the same voting rights as you and me. Depressing isn't it.

 

Have the pits shut?

 

I think you’re missing my point. I’m not arguing about the shortcomings of the EU. I voted leave! Though not for the reasons most of my fellow leavers did, many of whom i’m embarrassed to be sharing the same space.

My point was your comment about ‘the liberal elite in the media’. The only possible excuse for having that view - in this Country - is that you are only 16 years old and haven’t experienced it yet. For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t mean to be offensive with that comment, just trying to find an explanation for that very odd view you have.