Bill of Rights 1688

Harry Potter's bird

 

My mum lives around the corner from you and I'm sure she thought all immigrants, illegal or otherwise would have had to leave the day after the vote.

 

What I am leading up to, is that no matter what the options we have been presented with (the 2 - in or out). What this has shown is that the political leaders had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

Call me dave, has made an absolute monumental **** up. and quite ironically for a tory he has buggered off and leaving everyone else to clear up (which they always spout off about following labour).

I believe he used it as a means of gaining power again (And with a coalition again) to which he could possibly drop it off the agenda. They won outright. and he though, oh ****. and took off.

What is clear is he has given the choice to the public without so much of an after thought of what to do should it go against what he thought.

I am pretty sure if the public were given 3 or 4 options it would have been not so decisive, but he didn't even give that any thought whatsoever as he would have been forced into a fact finding mission of what each option did actually mean.

he has placed his party in a no win situation because which ever way this plays out, it will go against a load of people. (not that I mind him knackering up the tories like).

in the end we have the 2 choices. debating what to do now is something they have to live with, and it may actually force politcians to be more truthful and honest when it comes to voting. because they may just get a surprise.

I actually voted out, mainly because we have a world out there to trade with, not just Europe. But you can't protect your vital services at home with complete uncontrolled migration (Doctors/Schools etc) and with no way of knowing who might come in or leave the country you have very little to plan with.

That's a side issue, I am one of millions, and the campaigns on both sides leave a lot to be desired. But fo you know what I think now, I probably would still vote the same, I can see others would jump from one side to the other. It would be close again. Its too late. Its been had, and these who let it happen can now swim in their own juice and deal with what they have caused. actually earn their brass.

as it stands we the public are now in the hands of someone trying to negotiate a deal which will go against the likely majority of what we were actually asked.

meanwhile Dave is sat around with a nice fat wallet, whilst everyone is jumping on the brexit waggon to sqeeuze out as much money off everyone as they can. and it hasn't even started yet. money grabbing ****s... everywhere

might have flown off a bit like, but as a political nation, we aren't very political and vast swathes of the country are always dumped on

 

I'm fairly certain a big chunk of those in favour of hard brexit will change their minds when they realize exactly how much it is going to affect them. Potentially having to get a visa every year for the week in Benidorm (fortnight will be too expensive!), loads of paperwork (extra cost) for importing and exporting goods to Europe, much more difficult to live or work abroad, etc, etc. Could also be plenty of big employers leaving the UK for Ireland to keep a foothold in an English speaking country with access to the EU.

And thats not considering the financial impact of the £ falling like it has over the last month.

I've said it before, and will say it again. If we go hard Brexit, we are all going to be considerably poorer for a long time to come, with additional restrictions on our way of life that will take us individually and as a country a long time to recover from. It might be ok for the sanctimonious millionaire ****wits like Johnson, Gove and Farage (who insisted we ignore experts and the ruling elite while being part of the ruling elite and pretending to be an expert) but we are already starting to feel the pain, and it will get a lot worse before it even begins to recover.

Don't get me started on the pro-Brexit people now blaming the Remainers for causing the problems with the £ that they were said would happen before the vote.

 

I know you said potentially, but where do you get the idea we will need a visa to go to Benidorm,i went to Europe in the sixties without one.

 

The noises coming from Junker and from the French is that they want to make it as hard a Brexit as possible so that's summat to look forward to.

 

Really good post mate and I agree with much of it.

 

My thoughts exactly. Juncker, Tusk and the other Eurocrats will want us to lose everything. We might not need one for a holiday, but we will probably need a visa for work. Currently there is a big list of over 100 countries that do need visas to enter Spain and until we have an agreement with each country in the EU we could just go on that list.

At the minute, a visa for Spain is £51 + another £15 to process your fingerprints every 5 years. 20+million Brits at £50+ a pop is a big chunk to the Spanish economy.

 

I'm sure it'll be the same now then. Not much else has changed in the last 50 years

 

From Wikipedia
"The visa policy of the Schengen Area is set by the European Union and applies to the Schengen Area and to other EU member states without the opt-outs enjoyed by Ireland and the UK.[1] If someone other than a European Union, European Economic Area (EEA) or Swiss citizen wishes to enter the Schengen Area, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus or Romania they must have a visa or be a national of a visa-exempt country."

So unless the governments agree visa-free travel (and remember it will have to go both ways), then we will need a visa to enter the EU (except Ireland) including Spain. But if we want control of our borders, we will leave ourselves needing a visa to enter any of the EU countries. And I can't see Spain turning down potentially £1billion a year in visa fees...

 

One thing I missed. Criminal record, served time ? That's an automatic refusal of entry. Serve time over here and it's first flight out when your released.

You can't get into America or Australia so why are you able to give someone a good kick in whilst living in say Warsaw do two years then come to the uk... It's mental.

If you can't verify who you are then again its refusal of entry.

I appreciate the birth rate is low and using migrant family's to boost the population does hold advantages however it can be seen as a never ending circle.... People get older, ship in some care workers from the Eu... Care workers get older, ship in some more and so on.
I wonder how much the burden of care has shifted over the last twenty years away from the family in 'care homes' hence creating this reliance..

The job thing is an issue. Put some hoops in the way and stop the stack em high, over supplying of labour that's occurring now and it'll benefit in the long run.

The fact I could wake up, get on a plane to an other country in the Euro to live without a guaranteed full time job or the finances to support yourself is mind bogglingly mental. Shouldn't happen. Ever.

And I agree there is only so much migration a county can support and I think that the Uk has surpassed its limits.

We already have one of the highest population densities in the Eu as it is now.

The current demand on the NHS social housing and education is crippling. That's not including the artificially high rents caused by the demand for housing in certain areas of the country.

The far right is rising through out Europe,more so since the migrant crisis of recent years. If I recall correctly Poland refused to accept any and Hungary has recently voted (albeit not binding) to refuse any quotas. The far right party in Austria only missed out winning their recent elections due to some dodgy practices and will soon have a rerun. The right, in Germany even with constant pressure from the media and authorities are gathering momentum.

Thankfully the Uk remains fairly tolerant of those that are here but it's a thin line in the sand that's there at the moment and its soon going to get eradicated if things do not change.

Shirebrook has come close to exploding more than once.

 

Can I ask if you don't use migration to balance against the ageing demographic what do you do? A genuine question with no side. Other than Euthanasia I'm genuinely stuck.