Hypocrisy on both sides of the Great divide (warning!!-Brexit thread)...

Can anyone explain how all the usual Remain MPs can, within 2 hours of the 'agreement' state categorically it is identical in the most part but worse than May's rejected deal (apparently 60 new pages) but now claim 3 days is insufficient to review, analyse and debate the content? Surely it is just another excuse to delay.

At the same time, I acknowledge the Govt are trying to circumvent process and steamroller the legslation through, but the excuse above is simply a thinly disguised excuse for trying to prevent Brexit altogether. This is a prime example of why the the public on both sides are tired and frustrated by the whole thing due to the lack transparency and honesty coming from the HoC (again, I stress, from both sides)

 

The WA (Withdrawal Agreement) has 6 significant differences to Mays deal. Most of those are worse for the UK (NI Frontstop, export paperwork between NI and GB, etc)

The WAB (Withdrawal Agreement Bill) was first published last night and contains over 100 pages, with 115 pages of extra details. It also affects various other bills that are in existence and needs cross-checking against them.

Read this from a legal expert (Former govt lawyer, expert in EU law and Leaver) for more details. TLR It would take him 2 weeks to get a general sense of the implications.

 

What Farnham said.

 

I’ve said this before but it is worth repeating. The country is split right down the middle and across party lines on leaving the EU. There should never have been a yes/ no referendum on such a complex and fundamentally important matter. Especially when the final outcome hasn’t even been properly discussed. I think that the current Withdrawal bill should passed but amended to include a second referendum NOT on the “deal” as it stands but on the final outcome of what withdrawal means at the end of the transition period and when any future relationship is clear. Then we would all know what we are voting for.

 

OK fair enough. It DOES need scrutiny. That makes sense except...
"The actual Withdrawal bill was never published or scrutinised so no detail has ever been availlable to scrutinise."

So, like I said, how did the likes of Starmer 'et al'within 2 hours of the deal being agreed state this unpublished Withdrawal bill was worse than the previous one if he had not seen it?
That is my point, not about the bill itself. They cant have it both ways.

 

It's likely to be academic, Squire, because I think MP's will vote out Johnson's compressed timetable when they debate the business motion. Boris's big play was to try and use "this deal or no deal" to get his way. That seems to have been avoided. And there would have been more time without his attempted prorogation?

 

Because it was shared that Johnson was following option 1 that May went down of annexing Ireland as a whole, then creating a fudge to pretend he wasn't. And, stripping out large parts of the future trading relationship and pushing for a free trade deal, not the close alignment that May had pursued.

This is the actual legal bill to allow the agreement to happen. They aren't the same.

 

Its also of interest to note that back in May, Nikki Da Costa (who is now Johnsons Director of Legislative Affairs since July) stated that it would take 4 weeks to get the Withdrawal Agreement Bill through both houses.

 

Longer - 13 days in Commons, 20 in Lords and 4 in between.



Given 4 days in Parliament and Friday for constituency work, there is *just* enough time left this year.

 

She stated 4 weeks in a comment in May. that one goes back to December.

 

A noble idea but imagine how many billions of pounds and wasted time getting that far would cost just to cancel the whole charade.

cancel it now. almost everything vote leave promised the leavers has been shown to be untrue.

 

your point is just semantics though, its crying "whatabout" as if deflecting attention from the actual thing thats wrong.

 

I'd take issue with your assertion that the public on both sides are "tired and frustrated". That's dishonest language, intended to manufacture the impression that there's a consensus where one doesn't exist. Only idiots and charlatans use the "let's just get it over with so we can move on" argument, and the latter know exactly what they're doing.

 

Get Brexit Done is an idiots soundbite (sorry to all who have swallowed it).

The truth is that even if a withdrawal agreement was approved, there is a 2 year transition. Seeing as the easy bit that was going to be done in two shakes of a lambs tail has taken over 3 years, the negotiation of future trading relationships and subsequent free trade deals is going to take around a decade, maybe longer. Thats a minimum of 2 GE's that could change directions and those in power.

So for anyone thinking this con trick gets things "done".... you're very much mistaken and you're just at the start line.

 

I saw the several aspects of where the administration locks out parliamentary scrutiny and overrides its promises based on assumptions and unknowns.

Find it appalling that there are Labour MP's (some who readily admitted they hadn't even read the documentation!) willing to pass it through.

Legislation, the most important in our lifetimes most likely and trying to bully it through with no scrutiny. I also saw a suggestion that the legislation is likely to be largely from Mays negotiations, so key aspects have been edited and inserted or hatcheted. Never a good way to put any document together, so it would benefit from great scrutiny just to ensure the editing makes sense. I saw one law maker decrying the language and passive nature of some elements.

Its just a very poor document, a very poor bill and shocking there are some people content to waive it through for their own short term ends.

 

Got the majority he needed to get the Bill accepted, but has just lost the vote on the
timetable. Next step will be to push for a General Election.

 

Boris won't want one now as he only wanted one before so he could push no-deal through but the opposition didn't fall for it.