Running Sands, surveyor/conveyancing question

Given the realm of expertise on the BBS, I thought I'd ask the question here as I seem to be going round in circles with our surveyor and solicitor and pretty obviously, the sales progression team just wants to ignore it and get their commission!

We've had our environmental survey back for about a week which flagged an amber warning of "running sands". I've looked into it a bit and it suggests it can be unstable soil that can potentially slip.

The garden of the property we are aiming to buy is long and sloping (towards the house) and by the end (about 150ft) is probably at roof level.

When we saw it, our plan was to excavate and create a flat patio area near the house, retain the slope and create 2 or 3 flattened tiers for planting/nature. A sewer pipe runs down one of the boundaries.

We also found out there is a soakaway in the garden. Speaking with the surveyor, they suggested this wasn't ideal and could pose further risk depending on the level of unstable sandy soil and it's depth.

The current owners say they've not had any issues (though the garden currently seems like a giant dog toilet!). The two properties either side have established gardens which are loosely stepped, though it's not possible to tell if anything has been done to minimise any impact of running sands.

I guess my question is if anyone has had a similar situation, what might be done to find out more detail and level of risk and just how common such a thing is?

There's a few other ambers on there which we're not too concerned about, so we're trying to understand if an amber risk isn't too serious and potentially what we might have to do to remedy issues at the point of lansdscaping and excavating.

Any help is welcome. Thanks all

 

Probably not helpful, but have your lenders expressed a view? (Unless you're buying for cash). Also, I wonder what potential insurers' views would be?

 

I'd definitely see what the insurance quotes would be.

 

We've a very nominal mortgage that we're porting over and will be paid off when the term ends.

I've looked at a few specialist articles and the suggestion is a mortgage company need to be aware if running sands are definitely present. And similarly with an insurer.

The environmental survey simply says "risk of running sands in the area".

The previous property we pulled out of had an issue of possible radon in the area as an amber warning, but the owners had had a radon test and it showed below average levels. So I think the environmental report is a generic risk indicator that may not be borne out for the actual property.

That being said, both surveyor and solicitor aren't giving a view, or what to do next to find further information.

 

Go around to the neighbours and ask if they had any problems.

 

Most houses in the entire Southwest, Wales and across the Pennines are at risk of Radon - its emitted from the rock the houses are built on.

 

As well as your issues you need to consider whether it might put buyers off if/when you sell...

 

It does say "in the area". What area are we talking about.... That could mean anything from 5 yards away to the entire village/town etc (like coal mining/subsidence around here)

Was gunna suggest going back to whoever wrote the report, but looks like you have already said he's gone quiet

 

It's an environmental search report for the solicitor, done from a desk. The solicitor has since come back and said they can't give an opinion. The snippet of the map they've shown highlights the street and probably two property lengths either side.

On the side of the street this property is, it is highlighted in amber and all along that side. Just over the opposite side of the street, it's much lower risk. So it seems it's right on the cusp of being absolutely fine.

The properties on the street hardly turn over at all and most have had kitchen extensions, which you'd think would have flagged possible issues too.

 

Could you have a look on Rightmove or somewhere, see what others in the area have recently sold and then go and knock on their doors and ask them how they dealt with it?
Could you take out a contingency (?, wrong word) insurance to mitigate any potential issues?

 

Not sure if this helps but when we bought our current property it came back as a ‘flood risk’ and the Mortgage company raised it.
When we looked into it turned out that part of LN5 is a designated flood plain.
We explained to the Mortgage people that we lived nowhere near it, LN5 is a huge postcode for Lincoln and live on the top of a hill.
Purchase went through with no issues as a result.
That was 21 years ago though.

 

I guess the only practical advice I would give right now, is that if you proceed and do make stepped tiers, is to include some kind of deepish posts/foundations in each step (obviously covered so not visible to the eye) that may help strengthen the area and alleviate some of the risk

 

I think there are two concerns if there is movement. Towards the house, and the top end of the garden where there is a fairly newish development, so if we excavated, we could undermine that property, and obviously we'd be liable.

I'm torn between perceived risk and worst case scenario. Given it's not red, it's not obvious what the perceived risk is and having searched, I'm struggling to find any companies who could assess it beyond a standard surveyor, which is what we've already had.

If we did go ahead, and I'm not 100% sure we will at this point, I think we'd certainly want to ensure there were retaining walls to hold back any running sands if there was heavy rain, and ensure drainage was suitable to deal with it.

Frustrating.

 

I don't know how accurate the map is as to where the risk increases. As I touched on before, one side of the street is fine, the other isn't. It seems quite a coincidence the map markings run along a street, I'd have thought geology wasn't quite as linear.

Houses on the street rarely turnover, there's another house on the street which we preferred, but that garden was flatter. My initial searches suggested you couldn't take out insurance for possible subsidence risk, but it was a very quick search.

 

Not a solicitor but if i cant tek art insurance for ought then its a no brainer, good luck seek some expert advise, Water Saturation is not good around any development.

 

Thanks, it's where to get that advice from that I'm struggling. Surveyors don't seem to tick the box, our solicitor can't sign post us either. Googled a fair few search terms and they aren't highlighting anyone local.

 

Not a native American thread then.

 

I've spoken with the mortgage company. The guy I chatted with hadn't even heard of running sands and had worked there over 12 years. He suggested we send them the environmental report for an underwriter to review, and if they were unsure, they'd send a surveyor to assess (the mortgage port was approved just from desk research given it was so nominal).

Also spoke with our insurer and they didn't seem too concerned. They did add the very big caveat that if anything was to happen, premiums or insurability could be affected.

So I'm sort of left with the thought that there's just a lot of people covering their backsides.

We'll see what the mortgage underwriter says, but given LTV is so low, I wouldn't be surprised if they still weren't concerned.

Thanks for everyone's input (well, maybe not so much the native indian comment!!!), very much appreciated.

 

Thought the native Indian reply was funny myself and quick witted and made me chuckle.
Have you thought about using an independent surveyor who's nothing to do with the sale or purchase and could therefore advise the best way forward.
I personally would speak with the planning department at the local council
They will have, up to date knowledge on the actual situation, or so you'd think. After all, it's their department that grants planning permission so they, I'm sure,could provide you with the answers you need
Good luck moving forward

 

Removing support to other properties may be a risk. You may want to contact a civil engineering or environmental consultancy for a chat about how to proceed.