Struber/Ismael - different attitudes regarding the opposition

Look at this statement from VI yesterday:

Barnsley manager Valerien Ismael told BBC Radio Sheffield:

"It was a great performance. We showed another face today, we were very aggressive and made a lot of pressure and played with high intensity.

"We knew that Derby's confidence was down and we knew that if we could punish a mistake, it would drop even further.

"Second half was a tough game we had a chances and we have to be calmer in the opponent's box but we are very happy with a first away victory and a clean sheet."

Positive statement, no mention of the quality of the opposition. I liked Struber very much and he obviously had a great passion for the Oakwell job but I think he was a bit too meek at times; a bit too self-effacing. How many times did we hear about this "great club" or "big name players" that we were facing? I think Ismael has that touch of arrogance about him that should, as the season goes on, rub off on all the players so that they are able to believe that they can beat anybody.

Yes we have beaten a relatively "big club" yesterday. Or, should I say, one that used to be big in the Clough era. Maybe they will climb back there one day, and take that other big club from S6 with them. In the meantime though they are on the end of a beating from Barnsley. Dorrbeeee fans will be disgusted about that. What a shame .

 

Nail on head, I might’ve had some fingernails left if we’d made more of the opportunities in their box.

 

Good point PoR. Valerien did more than hint that he had a game plan to exploit Derby's weaknesses, and he was right. I'm not sure I'd go as far as arrogant though. More than quietly confident at the moment though isn't he?

 

I was thinking of arrogant in a nice sort of way - maybe the wrong word. He has played in the Premier League so that, for me, gives him the right attitude when coming up against the names like Rooney. I don't want to hear him saying how good this player is, or that player. I want him saying how good OUR players are and how well they played yesterday.

If we can, somehow, starting converting the bucket full of chances we get most games some teams are going to be on the end of some serious beatings this season. It might happen to us as well, now and then, but so long as we react (like this week) that will do for me.

 

Yep, you aren't going to win every game but it's how you react in the next game that's crucial. That's the attitude that got us promoted to the PL. Reaction after a defeat - I think in all bar one occasion we won the next game following a defeat in 96/97. Anyways, I digress.....

Regards Valerien, total agreement with you. Some on here were writing him off after one defeat..... but let's not dwell on that

 

What a coach says to the fans is entirely different to what he will be saying to the players. If you were taking to a work colleague about a job that you were both engaged in, what you said to him, and the way that you said it, would be very different to the way that you talked to your customer. The fans, including myself, like to think that we understand the game, and we do understand some parts of it, but there is a big gap between the way the professional approaches the game, and the way that the amateur does. I am very conscious of my lack of understanding, and I try to improve my understanding, but when you are observing from afar, it is hard to do so.

 

I haven’t had finger nails since the Great Escape of 2013. I’m hoping one year we might have an end of season where they can grow back.

 

Dont think I'd havea lot of respect for a boss who said one thing in public and another to the workforce. Obviouslysome things stay behind closed doors., it's nice to have a break from " my boys" too. Struber did a job for us but personally I prefer a more proactive, confident maanger that goes all out for the win.

 

Think it could be this one!

 

They are all trying to win. They just have different ways of going about it.

In my opinion, the most important thing about looking at the performance of a coach is to ignore whether the team is winning or not, at least in the short term, and look instead at the way it is playing. Is the way the team is playing taking full advantage of the individual talents of the players. Is it blending those talents together in an effective way. Is the team getting results against teams with players who are better individuals, in which case, the coach must be putting the team together in a more effective combination. What is the coach doing in order to make that team more effective than the sum of its parts.

If you just judge a coach by his results, a good coach will become a bad one from week to week, and vice versa. You are always going to be changing your opinion on the abilities of the coach, and that is what goes on all the time on the BBS. If, you judge him on how effective he is at getting the best out of the players, how effectively he melds them into a team and how much he improves them as individuals, you are much more likely to arrive at an accurate conclusion. Of course, that is much harder to do, especially from the outside, when you do not have full knowledge, or even understanding, but that is what makes it more interesting in my opinion.

 

I disagree. A lot of coaches would take a point away from home and set up for that. Struber could sometimes be way too cautious and this hampered some of our better players to a degree. But he got the results needed to keep us up.

 

No manager/head coach ignores (even short term)results,win or lose,they live and die by them.Have we improved since Struber left? results would suggest so,teams that are winning generally grow in confidence and hand in hand performances Improve.

 

How does Ismael set-up away from home (I did not see the game), because just 29% possession suggests his first priority was the clean sheet.

 

I was taking about how I personally assess a coach.

 

It was a 3 - 4 - 3 formation, same as the previous games under VI

 

Yes, I know it was, but 3-4-3 is the attacking side of the coin. The defensive side of the coin is 5-2-3 or even 5-4-1. Just how far is the coach prepared to let the wing backs advance? In some of the games I have seen at home, they have been high enough to cross from within 10 metres of the goal line. The point that I am making is that there is more to a system than can be described in the three numbers, 3-4-3.

 

Yes RR I know. What I was trying to say was it was the same as what we've been playing under VI, so 5-4-1 without the ball, and 3-4-3 with the ball. A lot of times though, especially in the first half, some players forgot to go forward, so the ball was easily lost as we didn't have a good set up. Lots to work on with this formation

 

I think Struber was hampered by his limited English: my boys, a big fight.

We needed someone like him, post-Stendel. Our fvcking defending was a joke. We had to tighten things up, keep ourselves in games, and give ourselves a chance. I always say that your medicine isn't likely to taste nice, and we were pretty unwell.

I don't really care what happened as regards him leaving. He showed himself to be a talented manager, and kept us up against all the odds. Ismael will be off, too, if the owners upset him one time too many.

 

I have just listened to the Radio Sheffield interview with Connor Chaplin. He was saying that it was a very unlike Barnsley performance, and that there was a lot less pressing. I had assumed that the first goal was due to the press before I saw the highlights, but as far as I can see, the Derby keeper was under no pressure. It was simply an error. It is a mark of how unreliable the BBS can be. Yesterday I read how the press was the reason that we scored first. I think many just use the same descriptions for what has happened, and that they do not apply any tests to make sure that what they are typing is relevant. That is fine for the majority, but for me, and the way that I reason my way through a game, it creates the wrong and mistaken impression.

 

I don’t really think it was much different to the types of tactics we saw under Struber apart from a slight shift in formation. We’ve played pressing football under the last 3 managers & Chaplin taking advantage of the keepers mistake could’ve happened under any manager for me.

I think we would’ve quite happily taken a point yesterday but we took advantage of their error & then hit them on the counter attack