To Press, or not To Press

Love it

 

I disagree with your view that Leeds outplayed us at Oakwell. My fading memory tells me that we exchanged views on this at the time. On that day Leeds showed they were far fitter than us. After 70 minutes we were spent and, in my view, thats why we lost. We just got tired.
At Elland Road our overall fitness levels had improved and we made a better fist of it.
I agree with many of the points you're making, in particular the loss of Jacob and how that has affected the effectiveness of the press.
Hence my comment about the possibility of applying a different press...from a deeper position.
Who knows what type of press the new guy will bring to the party ? For sure it will be a press of some kind but will he use the diamond or a 3412 or will he introduce a new system based on the players we have?
I hope he does come up with an alternative system / type of press because the current 3412 isnt effective enough.
I wonder whether a Bielsa type 4141 might better suit our current squad?

Walton
Williams Solbauer/Helik Anderson Odour
James
Brittain Kane Mowatt Styles
Woodrow

 

I am going to have to re-read Minority Report before I make casual assertions about past games. My memory is going downhill fast. Having done so, I can see that I raved about Calvin Philips' performance in the Leeds home game, praised their pace, and also our effort and running, and you are right. In the end, I concluded that we just ran out of energy under their constant barrage.

However, I am not sure that Leeds can be our example. As I say, I raved about Calvin Philips and we do not have a Calvin Philips. I do not know how our press will change, but as you say 3-4-1-2 has not been working. In my view, that is because we have not had a No10. If Kane is a No10, then we may have a solution. Attention will then shift to our front 2, because that partnership then becomes the issue. There is always some problem though, and that is what makes this sort of conversation so interesting.

 

My response was that I knew the thread was about systems - what could possibly offend you in that???
I was merely saying that our problems are fundamental and basic whether we play 4-4-2, 3-5-2, or whatever. I happen to think that a system works when you play the right players in the right positions within a system, and at the moment we are better suited to 3-5-2. Our thought and quality is lacking in and around the box, and that causes our problems.
I don’t need to write an essay to make a valid point, I’m nearly 58 and have been watching us since I was 8, it’s not hard to see where our quality is missing.
It’s an open board, I will say what I want where I want. I now choose not to say anything on any topic you instigate. You are clearly somebody who cares about what you think and have a passion about what you do in analysing it. There are other views to be made and said without
that contributor being shot down for saying something that you see as a personal dig but so clearly isn’t. I have no axe to grind with anybody and never have, but pompous arrogance is something that is and will cause divisions with the vast majority on here.

 

It is indeed very interesting. For me the fascination is about seeing professional people (the coaches) trying to make a success out of something which I care deeply about but which I cannot influence. Therein lies the frustration that we feel as fans; when Coaches apply strategies and systems which don't work and we think we know better. Football and opinions. It brings us together and splits us apart in a way nothing else does. This Board (I'm sure like many others) is a great illustration of that.

Having concluded the contemplation of my navel, my real reason for responding to your last post was to share your frustration, and mine.....the problem of the number 10. I completely agree with you about current personnel. The fact is, we have no-one who can fulfil that position effectively. I thought Luke Thomas might be our best option for the role but he's not quite there yet. I thought Kane might have been bought for the role, but it looks to me like he's a deeper lying midfielder.

So, let's abort the search for a Number 10 and, in keeping with your belief that we should find a system to match the attributes of the players, let's move to a 4141. You're right, we don't have a Calvin Phillips, but now we do have a Matty James, who might be able to do a similar job in that QB role.

 

Fair enough. Sorry you feel that way.

 

Earlier in the thread, I wondered whether Matty James could play at the defensive point of the diamond, but that still left us needing a No10, and I agree with your assessment of our current player resources in that role. As I remember Matty James from his last visit, and we have already established just how bad my memory is of these matters, he was more of a defensive midfield destroyer, than he was a creative puller of strings from deeper. But if we are looking to Leeds, and Calvin Phillips as our example, he has pace in front of him. He can look up from his deep position and find runners ahead of him who can out pace a defensive line in a sprint from half way. Cauley Woodrow has his strengths, but running away from a defensive line is not amongst them. It is not just a question of having the one player who makes a system work as the passer, it is also the need to have the right players ahead of him. Even if we had Calvin Phillips, I am not sure the 4-1-4-1 works, and Cauley Woodrow is no lone striker either.

Our systems (3-4-1-2 or 4-diamond-2) were adopted because we had no big man up front to win the long ball. I accept that it can also work with pace, but we do not have that either. The only alternative in that case is short passing along the ground from back to front. The more passes a team makes, the more there is a risk that one will go astray. That is the price that you pay for lack of pace/height up front, but pace and height up front are expensive and we do not have the money to spare. Therefore we go for what we can afford. We compromise. It is frustrating that we cannot afford the best, but there it is. So given that we must compromise, it is a constant search for the best one.

It is fair to say that I have not always been in favour of the press. I argued, as many have done, that the press is wasteful of energy, that tired players make mistakes etc etc. However, I have come around to the view that it is more cost effective to get players fitter, than it is to buy better players. It also seems pointless to keep rejecting a way of playing that the owners are sold upon. The only remaining question is what system do you link to the press. I did not like Stendels 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 because I felt that both left us too open when the press was broken, having no deeper midfield player ahead of our defensive line. I have explained what I think is wrong with 4-1-4-1, but I think that all the other systems (4-4-1-1, 4-diamond-2 and 3-4-1-2) all require a decent No10. There is always a problem with everything in football. There is almost never a clean solution that everyone agrees with. As you say, that is what keeps the discussion going. That is what will exercise the mind of our new coach, and I look forward to trying to follow how his mind will try to work out a solution to the problem.

 

I'm not particularly against the press, I just think that at this moment in time, our best hope of winning games is to get the best out of Sollbauer, Mowatt and Woodrow through the spine of the side. I Actually think we could do that playing a pressing game, with a diamond formation. I'd put Styles in the 10 role, with Woodrow up front with either Frieser or Schmidt. I think that in the absence of a target man that Woodrow may benefit from Schmidt playing alongside him, with him being a striker rather than a 'forward'.

But if we are to appoint a new coach every year, we will soon get to the point where we just need to strive to get the best coach available, and not narrow down our options to one that likes to press. The coach should be adaptable to the players they have available to them.

 

Not sure if anyone read my posts re pressing from half way. Seems like someone was listening. James is class. Chaplin is useless. Freezer is doing OK. Mads, holy **** another balls up.
.

 

I read it and you make a good point.
Re today so far also agree with you re James....best player on the park by a country mile. Absolute top quality. Weve looked good today just a disastrous bit of defending from Mads.

 

All I would do it to make the same point as I made earlier. All the players we buy, all the teams we turn out at every level of the game. They all play the same way. They do that because that is the most cost efficient way forward. There is no way that the owners are going to say forget that, its time we had a change. They would have to change too many players over too short a period and it would be just too expensive. The decision about a system of play is a long term decision, and it will not be changed without much head scratching and heart searching. I know that you think it is wrong, but for your own peace of mind, try to at least tolerate it.