Bottles, cans or draught...........

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by judith charmers, Jul 6, 2020.

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  1. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    It isn't plastic that's used and it doesn't impact the flavour.

    People might have a preference for bottle, but from a pure beer quality perspective it isn't even a debate. Cans are better.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 7, 2020
    #61
  2. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    If only there was a Professor of Polymer Science on the board to educate.
     
    Plankton Pete, Jul 7, 2020
    #62
  3. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I thought alcohol cans had the same plastic lining that pop cans had. Whats the alcohol can liner made from?
     
    SuperTyke, Jul 7, 2020
    #63
  4. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    All 3 after tonight's result !!
     
    Redhelen, Jul 7, 2020
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  5. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Don't know the exact term but I believe its a food based lining. All it's designed to do is stop the aluminium coming in to contact with the liquid.

    Regardless, even if it is plastic, it doesn't impart any flavour on the beer. If it did, you wouldn't be seeing a massive global decline on bottles beer and ridiculous growth in cans.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 7, 2020
    #65
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  6. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    It is a polymeric lining, but you're right nothing should leak out. Different manufacturers will use different coatings, but food grade polymer coatings will have very low leaching rates of small molecules that could impact flavour and certainly they'd not degrade before the beer went off. I'd have thought the shelf life of water will be governed by bacteriological growth.
     
    Plankton Pete, Jul 7, 2020
    #66
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  7. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I thought that the container reacting with the contents was when that container is damaged. The lining gets damaged and the metal is exposed. Bottles smash, cans don't. Sometimes, when buying beans, every can seems to be dented. Same happens with beer, but because a beer can is under pressure from the co2 and because its so thin its shape is retained even if it has been damaged.
     
    Jay, Jul 8, 2020
    #67
  8. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    You're right, the contents are reacting with the metal container if the protective coating is damaged. I think it was suggested that 'plastic' in contact with beer led to a detrimental impact on the taste. I don't think it does.
     
    Plankton Pete, Jul 8, 2020
    #68
  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    No, I agree, just think the person who said that had only half heard the potential problem. Cans are fine, so long as the lining is in tact. When there's damage, not so much, and in my experience that seems to happen an awful lot. It tastes funny and on closer inspection there's a crease in the can.
     
    Jay, Jul 8, 2020
    #69
  10. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    I'd add Northern Monk to that. Their brew tap is worth a visit. It's easy walking distance from Leeds station.
     
    John Peachy, Jul 8, 2020
    #70
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  11. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind though Helen....it's not a real pub.....another inaccuracy is customers buying rounds of 'doubles' for others.
     
    sadbrewer, Jul 8, 2020
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  12. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Not in the UK....beer and soft drink bottles are crushed and remelted....it seems wasteful and rather defeats the object.
    When I started in the trade all bottles came in plastic, sometimes wooden crates with a deposit....that would be refilled with the empties and returned to the Brewery for washing and reuse...in the early 2000's the beer crate started disappearing in favour of a card base with the throw away bottles in held together with shrink wrap plastic.
    From what I understand the Germans have continued with the old, and what seems to me to be the greener method.
     
    sadbrewer, Jul 8, 2020
    #72
  13. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    What makes you say that John?
     
    sadbrewer, Jul 8, 2020
    #73
  14. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    John?

    There's plenty of insight out there for why beer in can is better for beer quality. Less risk to being light struck being an obvious one, and they're better at fending off the risk of exposure to oxygen, which supports flavour and freshness. Freshness deteriorates faster in bottle over can.

    Also, as they chill quicker and hold their cold temperature for longer, that impacts on beer quality as well.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 8, 2020
    #74
  15. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    There is no evidence that beer actually tastes better from a can, thats purely a subjective argument...the light issue is such a minimal issue when bottles tend to be dark anyway....it takes a seriously long time for light to damage beer...and no reason to suggest there is any greater risk from exposure to oxygen ( not having a go at you though mate!!!)...I have a collection of bottled Thomas Hardy Ale brewed in the 1970's and 80's that are still perfect....I doubt you'll find any canned beer at all that can match that.
    I would agree cans chill quicker....but I don't think you can claim that for a quality argument.
     
    sadbrewer, Jul 8, 2020
    #75
  16. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I also have Thomas Hardy Ales from the same decades. They're not perfect really as nobody knows what perfect truly is (but they will be stunning to drink) and they'll have aged differently and likely mine will taste different to yours depending on the conditions we've kept them in.

    You could argue the benefits are minimal, but even in darker bottles, cans still do a better job of keeping away off flavours through being light struck and exposure to oxygen. We're talking about beer in general here, gazillions of it being drunk and stored globally, as oppose to fast moving, cellar stored beer from the smaller breweries.

    There's a reason bottled beer is dying a slow, cold death and cans are on the rise. Carbon footprint and sustainability is one and beer quality is the other.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 8, 2020
    #76
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  17. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    This got me thinking about something else. If you're on Twitter answer this poll for me.

     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 8, 2020
    #77
  18. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Light struck and oxygen exposure are not valid arguments....the Thomas Hardy's...amongst others...scotches that one completely...the fact is there is no added risk of exposure to oxygen or light as the Thomas Hardy wouldn't be drinkable fifty years on....where I would agree is bottling in clear glass, particularly when they are pasteurized leads to a haze caused by a chemical reaction that sometimes leaves a crystal like deposit in the bottle.
    I completely agree that there is a reason for cans taking over....whether it's greener ? I'm not sure....mining bauxite in tropical and sub tropical reasons and shipping it across the world doesn't, on the face of it, seem to be a great idea when we can source the silica glass here in the UK and reuse the bottles on numerous occasions, (I know the Germans use the swingtop type bottles for many years).
    The main reason is convenience of packaging and storage, tbh, there are, in my view no serious reasons for canning other than that, valid cost and transport reasons they may be, but actual beer quality is not amongst the reasons....and to prove it in a non scientific test....next time were at Oakwell, I'll bring a 50 yr old Thomas Hardy....you bring a can of Bud Light and well see which is best:)
     
    sadbrewer, Jul 8, 2020
    #78
  19. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    And I'll bring you a chlorinated chicken from the US and one from Farmer Copley's and you can tell me which is best :)

    Some of the flavours that develop in old beer can be put down to infections of the beer and ageing. We'll just have to disagree on this, but there are so many breweries globally that would lean towards cans being better for quality that I'll have to be stubborn on this one and just say you're wrong - light heartedly of course
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jul 8, 2020
    #79
  20. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    I'd actually typed Northern Monk then deleted it as it was starting to look like a hipster craft brewer list.
     
    Plankton Pete, Jul 8, 2020
    #80
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