I know we all have bigger fish to fry but I had to come back on here just because there is such a colossal amount of ******** flowing. It's not healthy to stand by and watch. I get it, people are scared. And for that very reason your fear is being exploited by some of the worst people in the world. The machinery behind Brexit takes in far right billionaires from the UK and America, dubious ties to Russia, fake news, memes, big data and general fuckery. Those exact same people are now in charge of the UK. Do you think they put those toys away? Have you seen sane adults defending Trump? praying for Boris? giving money to the NHS? It’s madness. Let me help you with some items and I will put my sources for this information in the comments section of the thread below ; Point - Sweden is not the poster child for your desire for this to be over. Sweden has an obscenely high death rate, nearly double its highest neighbours and an upwards curve that is shocking. It is not ‘working’ it is failing spectacularly. Every single one of ‘the numbers’ is a person, a person who did not have to die. Finland and Norway, both very low. Denmark has almost no deaths because they all did the right thing. No we will not ‘see’. It’s already happened. Point - Bleach in ‘small amounts’ as in swimming pools and ultra violet light as a therapy are real treatments, yes. For things like swimming pools, chlorinated chicken etc. Just because you found something online that ‘proves’ they are in-use does not mean Trump is either correct OR using his position as the most infamous man in the world correctly. The only people you need to listen to are doctors. Not a fishy Nick-Nack who has lied his entire life. Point - Hydroxychloroquine is not a miracle cure and you definitely do not want to medicate yourself. With anything. Clinical trials are not over. You could be over though if you listen to Trump. Point - Boris is not doing a great job. He is doing nothing at all. Which was their plan as he announced in Greenwich on Feb 3rd. And on national television with Scofield and Co. He said openly they will not act in order to make money out of the situation. They are not ‘incompetent’ or ‘clowns’ they are crafting the situation carefully. Trump and Boris are not bumbling nitwits, they are actors who play the role of distraction perfectly while cold, efficient and utterly heartless rich, white men make pots of cash out of every disaster they either create or as with this, exploit. Promises not being delivered on the financial help are utterly unsurprising of course. No one understands better than them that if you leave it a couple of weeks or even a couple of days no one will remember their crimes. This is all about Brexit. They are lying low and counting the days. The reason you are not seeing their usual distractors like Francois, Rees-Mogg, Duncan-Smith, Patel or any of the other horrors is they desperately do not want to be unpopular at the 11th hour when they are so close to their golden goose. Point - It is the fault of ‘The Science’. Dominic Cummings placed himself on the ‘SAGE’ scientific board, which is handily secret, and he is neither a scientist nor a rational moral human. He drove and cherry-picked the science that came closest to what he wanted politically. Which was for the UK to do nothing, and tens of thousands die. And if you are suspicious, still, that the UK Gvt is not trying to kill you, to this day and throughout the crisis, the airports have never closed, nor tested anyone entering. From the worst hotspots in the world people are flooding in while you are volunteering to stay indoors. Add that to people being allowed to drive all over the country to ‘have a walk’ and you’ve got an administration making a mockery of you. Pretending to take measures while ensuring they get what they wanted all along. "If a few pensioners die, so be it" said Cummings. All you need to know right there in 8 horrific words. Point - The UK is not experiencing a total of 18 - 20,000 deaths, it’s over 41,000 and rising. It is an ISLAND but 2nd only to America in body count. Think about that. The global outrage over 9/11 was over the deaths of 3000. The toll in America alone is over 50,000 which is on a par with the US casualties in Vietnam. Every. Single. One. Preventable. The second highest body count in the world is from one of its smallest island nations. All you have to do to stop an island getting infected is close its borders. They never wanted them closed or wanted you safe. The airports are open right now and always have been. Point - Ventilators. Do you need any more proof of the racketeers at the wheel than ignoring offers of help from UK manufacturers of PPE and ventilators and instead giving the contract to Dyson, who’s never made one in his life and STILL hasn’t made one. Who will make them abroad and take all our money to his Singapore haven where he ****** off after helping make Brexit happen. A donor and buddy of the mobsters in charge. Do you need any more proof than them sending the PPE we actually had abroad to tax havens. To make sure their dirty money was safe before any of the population at home was. Confirmation bias has never been happier, you can now literally find anything to back up what ever your emotions are currently manipulating you with. Want an educated piece about how it’s all nonsense and you can go out? no worries. Right there on someone else’s thread, why, you don’t even have to read what is attached if the title backs you up and makes you look informed. Want a piece that advocates staying in instead? lots of those. And everything in-between. “AHA!” you cry, that means science is stupid and I know better! No. Science is a process. Continually ongoing. Scientists are not a process, they are there to advise and drive the process as it unfolds. Their advice and decades of knowledge is far, FAR more important than your ill-informed opinion of the day. The fact you can find a contradictory argument online is not ‘proof’. If it is proof of anything it is confirmation of abject amateurism. Most of all there are calls for being ‘released’ , pretty much because you’ve had enough and the weather is getting better. You are not imprisoned, nor am I. I’m not indoors because the police tell me to be, I am volunteering to be because it is the correct thing to do. The colossal disrespect shown to the people trying to help you and those volunteering happily to stay indoors and do the right thing is shocking when you flout the quarantine. By demanding to be ‘released’ too early you are guaranteeing a second wave. Why draw it out? We are already being eased out of it in Europe. Because we did what was necessary. That means being indoors 23.5 hrs out of every single 24. No ‘exercise’. No drives to the country. No parks or beaches. It's a lot nicer here and a lot more tempting to go out. But we don't. The more you bend the rules the longer you will have to endure them. It’s really very simple. Please, for the sake of yourselves if not my family and friends. Don’t listen to the Conservatives. Listen to the rest of the world. Stay in. Don’t go out. Give the people on the front line breathing space to get ahead of it. Moan online if you must, that is partially what it is there for. But in the real world there are real-world consequences. Every single one of the ‘numbers’ was a grandma, mother, son, daughter, father, grandfather… and not a single one of them had to die. Forty. One. Thousand. Don’t blame each other when those in charge are deliberately giving out vague information. And if after reading this you feel a volcanic outrage then congratulations, you are a human being. Don’t let the ******** off the hook.
A load of that is utter crap but it does include sensible stuff too. Think people will miss the sensible and bluster over the crap though. #regarding lockdown here and over 'there'. Spain allowed its children to leave their homes yesterday for the first time in 40 days: just for an hour mind.
Another reason why I came off facey. The self-righteous insanity of the narrative: 'so when you do this, and when you think that' and telling us what our 'desires' are, and the sweeping pigeon-holed generalisations thrown into the ether (aimed at who??) and the general passive aggression, and the insatiable desire for attention; to be seen as in the know, in the right and morally and philosophically above everyone else - I read it to the end, and actually I felt more of a 'volcanic outrage' at the poster him/herself than at Trump and Johnson put together, so what does that make me? Yes people are dying, mistakes have made - it is a global pandemic. It cannot be boxed and spewed out as the fault of Trump, Johnson, Russia and James Dyson.
It's about so much more than those individuals. I don't think the world has handled it well. I dont think wet markets in Wuhan handled it well, or people that spit at the emergency services, or certain leaders that instruct their populations to do one thing and then do the opposite themselves. I also know there are many people putting their lives at risk to fight it, there are good people that are listening to the advice to stay at home, and there is good and bad in the world. I won't be told by some self-appointed spokesperson for the world on Facebook what I think or feel, or how to feel though. It's like something out of Orwell. My colleague's mum passed away from the virus last week - do I put the blame at Trump's or Johnson's door, do I think there's this grand conspiracy, or do I think many thousands have succumbed, it's terribly sad and will affect many many people, and mistakes have been made but we are trying to fix it on a world scale? Not everything needs to be politicised, and some people need to get off their soap box. And this isn't aimed at you in any way, it's those all over social media spreading their joyless hate campaigns of self-serving righteousness.
I don't understand this. Some things absolutely do need to be politicised, and the government's response to a pandemic which is killing tens of thousands is one of them. I'm utterly fvcking sick of people saying not to politicise it, giving it a hand wave of "well people have made mistakes but we're all doing our best so no harm done." We p1ssed away a week with the herd immunity ******** which will have killed thousands, and also hurt the economy given that if we'd locked down earlier we would have been able to think about relaxing it earlier. And that's not even mentioning Cummings' hand on the "science" aspect, the lack of PPE, lack of testing and tracing etc. If we aren't to politicise this then what the fvck are we going to politicise?
But to politicise all what you have described above suggests the mistakes have been made because they are Tories. Which is largely bullsh1t. Political points can genuinely be made about, for example, PPE stockpiles or lack thereof and I couldn't argue. But much of the rest of it is just people making on the hoof decisions that have massive ramifications and making mistakes along the way. The mistakes have been made because they are fallible human beings. Not because they are Tories. Do you honestly think every decision would be bang on if Labour were in the seat? Of course not, and had they been in the seat, and when they made mistakes, I would have said it was because they were people doing their best in a horrible position, not because they are socialists.
A lot of my criticism is nothing to do with whether they are tories or not. Some of it relating to the running down of the health service and not using EU help is politically driven but my biggest gripe is the approach they took especially in Feb and March. Couple with the dishonest way we are logging figures of Infections deaths equipment etc. I think the previous Tory Government led by May would have handled it better. No clue if Corbyn would have done. Btw The article in the OP has some valid points but a lot of it is just rubbish which makes it hard to take it seriously
What about the "herd immunity" thing? We pursued that against the advice of the WHO and evidence from other affected countries. "Doing their best" is not a defence for incompetence and/or negligence and what Labour might have done is irrelevant when discussing what the government has actually done.
In my opinion, the issue about EU help is a non issue. The EU have been of no help to anybody. Italy got some PPE from the EU today. God help them if that was their only source. I can't strongly argue against arguments about the approach taken in Feb and Early March. It is subjective as to how much better things would have been as we will never know. But I do agree that I would have liked to have seen some things done differently, no doubt. Agree, some valid points in the article but mostly self righteous crap. And when he / she suggested it was "all about Brexit" they lost me at that point. No credibility then for anything else they had to say.
It’s utterly irrelevant what labour would have done. If they had won the last election the damage was already done, with over a decade of austerity and an underfunding of services. They might have acted sooner to close the borders, they might not because we’ll never know so it’s an waste of energy discussing it. I do know that Austerity wouldn’t have happened under a labour government but again that’s not the discussion here. The discussion is about the cluster fcukk we find ourself in, much of it could have been stopped sooner.
The point about asking whether things would be different under a Labour government is only to emphasise that mistakes are not being made because of political colour. I agree we will never know and is otherwise irrelevant.
There is some truth in there....there is some utter crap in there....ie Point - Ventilators. Do you need any more proof of the racketeers at the wheel than ignoring offers of help from UK manufacturers of PPE and ventilators and instead giving the contract to Dyson, who’s never made one in his life and STILL hasn’t made one. Who will make them abroad and take all our money to his Singapore haven where he ****** off after helping make Brexit happen. A donor and buddy of the mobsters in charge. Do you need any more proof than them sending the PPE we actually had abroad to tax havens. It fails at a very basic level.....Dyson have not got a contract to build ventilators. Dyson will not supply ventilators to NHS to treat Covid-19 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...vid-19?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
What I want to Know is how the fck has Labour been dragged into this thread, in case you need reminding it's all Tory, Tory & the Tory fck ups,end of.
Because that's all they have. I'm yet to see a Tory ******* anywhere criticise the current government. They have 3 standard responses: "Lets not politicise this" "They are doing their best" "Imagine what Labour would have done" They're all complicit in this.