Keir Starmer

Dublin has not worked to reduce UK migration...I put the actual figures in front of you, we had a net rise, it can't still be argued as an answer surely?...and suggesting an unspecified similar arrangement doesn't cut it.

It has also to be remembered that a large number of EU countries get very few applications for asylum, several have erected many kilometers of border fencing, and Poland has temporarily suspended Dublin 111 recently.
In relation to our peer countries in the EU, according to your graph in 2023 and 2024 UK had a total 216,000 applications ( I accept the projection)

In that time,
Germany had 602,375 applications
France...324,790
Italy...294,425
Spain...328,575

In relation to the EU as a whole 27, our applications seem excessive, however when looked at against broadly similar nations the overall % figure looks a little unrepresentative.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati..._million_first-time_asylum_applicants_in_2023

 

I think both you and MDG have similar points to be honest. There's been a decline in infrastructure in the country, economic stagnation and austerity but at the same time there have been people coming in boats for a long time now and its been amplified by the right-wing media so as to suggest its the major issue in society. Its not of course (in my opinion) but simply because people are arriving with many put up in hotels it doesn't scan right for a lot of people. They perceive it as wrong and unfair even if it is actually humane. Their worries, to me, are misplaced but are amplified by the right-wing media, jumped on by racists as 'proof' that there's replacement occuring and British culture is being 'taken over'. Its all ******** of course but it gets traction as there are no progressive alternatives espoused by so-called progressive parties like Labour. Indeed Labour under Starmer has disgracefully jumped on the bandwagon. Labour and the LibDems seem like rabbits in headlights. There's no pushback. The only voices who say anything positive or anti-racist/anti-fascist now are the Greens with Polanski and the new Corbyn party but neither of those groups have airtime at the moment. Until genuine, positive alternatives are explained and offered and people can feel positive about their lives the right will dominate the narrative and Farage WILL become prime minister. Its scary because he has no sympathy at all for working-class peoples' lives and will destroy things that many people now take for granted. He needs challenging properly and fast before its too late. He's got the momentum and he needs attacking now. Labour are yet again letting the working-class down because they do nothing except parrot him. There are alternatives and there is a different narrative.

 

He's not becoming prime minister for the next four years, at least.

 

But you do concur that the actual total, and as a percentage of the total applications, our application numbers have increased quite significantly since leaving the EU? The stats show the effect on UK applications quite clearly.

In Dublin III - held steady

Left Dublin III - increased significantly

2015 when Merkel implemented the open door policy you reference - very slight increase in total and massive reduction in percentage of the total.

The truth is that they now no longer run the risk of travelling all across Europe and the channel only to be legally turned away. We now have no recourse and they know it. Like it or not, Dublin III was that recourse.

 

I would suggest that there is already a large proportion of immigrants in Barnsley, it's just that they don't have black or brown skin.

 

'' But you do concur that the actual total, and as a percentage of the total applications, our application numbers have increased quite significantly since leaving the EU?''

I do agree, the figures show that, they also show that European applications have mushroomed in the same time, particularly amongst our peer economies, every one of Europe's major countries now actually outstripping UK applications.

You say '' We now have no recourse and they know it. Like it or not, Dublin III was that recourse. '' ...Were that the case, the major EU countries would not be seeing much higher applications than the UK, as people ( if your theory is correct) would realise they have an even greater chance of being returned to the country of their first point of entry...( which contrary to popular belief is not mandatory)

The HoC figures clearly show that Dublin 111 actually increased numbers to the UK, the exact opposite of what you anyone would suggest was a model to adopt in order to reduce migration. As I said before other EU states realise
Dublin may not be fit for purpose, Poland have unilaterally suspended it, and Italy have refused to comply
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-000534_EN.html

If you don't consider the above is clear evidence, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Absolutely agree to disagree.

Our applications have gone up by a higher percentage than other major countries in the EU every year since leaving Dublin IiI having held steady for the years where we were still part of it.

 

The major effect of Brexit on immigration in the UK is actually on legal immigration, not on the numbers but on their origins. In the EU, we had migrant workers coming from all over Europe to work in our hospitals, care homes and hospitality, now they come from former British colonies and have dark skin. This is the reason that immigration is now such a big issue for the right wing.

 

this laboour lot is nearly as bad as the last lot -look who thay have tried to make poorer- disabled, pensioners.etc. did I vote for this shocking attack on the us -no way-get ready-for the budget. Basic pensions still half of minimum wage but food, rates,gas/electricity higher etc. fuel bills higher than pension increase- example gas /electic was £120 per month now £260 per month-guess what`s coming in october-increase in meter charges plus higher fuel bills- thanks a lot.

 

The energy cap is managed by Ofgem. Today they raised it by £35 a year.

If your energy has doubled, I suggest you shop around or manage your increased consumption because the cap has been pretty constant for around 2 years now. No government is going to go on a comparison website for you.

 

You’re right,but it’s a lot easier to blame everything on Starmer

 

Brexit was a vote to change the makeup of our immigration from white, christian Europeans, to darker skinned citizens of mainly Commonwealth countries. Now, the same people who spent years telling me that freedom of movement was racist and we should have more immigration from the Commonwealth are complaining that we actually have got more immigration from the Commonwealth.

This is exactly what they voted for.

 

It reminds me of the day that the Leave vote won, and channel 4 news interviewed folk in Barnsley, and outside Parkway Cinema someone said it was a great decision because there’s too many Muslims here.

Another complete moron referred to now being able to control our own borders, another referenced no longer being bound by EU rules that were harming the fishing and farming industries and one very stupid woman said it felt amazing, nearly in tears, to have her country back.

And here we are.

 

And then you ask yourself if the country could possibly be daft enough to vote in the deform racist. Oh aye!

 

The Daily Mail have well documented 'form' on xenophobia, anti-semitism, facism and immigration. Harold Harmsworth, Lord Rothermere, who was co- owner of the Mail with his brother, was an avid supporter of Mussolini, Oswald Mosley and Hitler. He visted Hitler and Goebbels on a number of occasions, sometimes staying at the Berghof. Goebbels wrote in his diary " Harmsworth is strongly anti-Jewish and he is totally with us". In 1938 the Mail published a number of articles denigrating Chamberlain's government for allowing the mass immigration of Jews into Britain from Germany, claiming they will take away the jobs of British workers and undermine our culture. PLUS ÇA CHANGE, PLUS C'EST LA MÊME CHOSE.

 

I think page hall is mostly romainans who came across when we were in europe with the free movement of people. I'm not sure what % of page hall residents have contributed to the u.k. And Im not saying all immigration is bad at all I do think it should be controlled to jobs and skills that are needed similar to Australia which helps the country.

 

I completely agree with you about a points-based immigration system being the way forward, provided it's implemented properly (which with the Home Office running the show is very unlikely). In fact, didn't Boris Johnson promise us a points-based immigration system post-Brexit? Pledge 2,053 that's been sweet under the carpet.

 

I don’t think you’ll find anyone disagreeing with you.