Poll: What is your gender (serious answers only please)

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A Handsmaid Tale alive and kicking, women are just walking wombs.

I'd be interested to know @BarnsleyReds without divulging personal medical info, what characteristics Jay has that renders them male in your eyes and if you've felt them from birth.

 

You're the one that said "the parts that make me feel specifically female rather than human are things that males don't go through. And until I did go through them I could never have imagined how it would be"!

You're literally saying the thing you're saying we are!

 

I'm not I'm talking about experiences as a female, they're not all to do with pregnancy.
I've answered your questions, so over to you to answer mine.

 

I think this is aimed at @troff not me.

But I do have trans friends, so I'll give my answer.

I don't give a **** about "characteristics". If a friend comes out and says they identify as the opposite gender or non-binary, I'll use their chosen pronouns. Why wouldn't I? The only person it affects is them, why would anybody purposely go out of their way to make someone's life miserable?

Any physical changes they make are between them and their doctor and are purely to make them feel more comfortable in their body. Affects nobody else whatsoever.

 

But not all cis women will experience everything you do. Doesn't make them any less of a woman. The same applies to trans women.

 

This. Pretty much. Thanks @BarnsleyReds

As for you @Redhelen - Did we always know Jay was Jay when he was a five year old little girl with a different name for example? No. Of course we didn’t.

He wasn’t even particularly tom-boyish initially. He even completed puberty as a girl.

I don’t know from what point he knew for sure - nor when he started to feel different in any way. He initially came out as bisexual as a young woman, but that wasn’t it. He wasn’t female.

Yes he’s had physical changes made to his body - very significant ones. His business.

But he started on testosterone injections many years ago and physically looked and sounded male (in terms of facial hair and a deeper voice) a long time before ‘bottom’ surgery, which happened well after his breast removal.

Other than not being particularly tall (he wasn’t exceptionally tall as a woman), you would never know him not to be cis male to look and speak to him.

And Helen, your ‘A Handmaid’s Tale’ analogy is pathetic. It really is. This whole topic of conversation is about individuals having the right to be themselves and for others to not show outrage at that.

In that regard, it’s the absolute antithesis of the Handmaid’s Tale rhetoric. Women aren’t limited to those who can reproduce - but those who can reproduce aren’t assigned to any commander to do so. Everyone is and should be their own commander.

I have always respected your views on this forum on football and on other things. Generally a really strong and reasoned poster. But on this topic I don’t only disagree, you are plain and simply wrong.

 

Thanks for the reply @troff, and apologies for the name mix up.

If anyone wants to present as the opposite sex, I have no problem with that. As an adult of rational mind if they want to have surgery, thats their decision. I'd sooner we didn't have any gender constructs at all, but that's an idealised world we don't inhabit.
But the bottom line is, just because someone says something doesn't make it true. And by following that logic, we have victims of rape being forced into using female pronouns when giving testimony against their rapist , women/young girls being forced to get changed / strip searched in front of and by males and I make no apologies as a woman that that is unacceptable.
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Let's be clear, I am perfectly happy for people to disagree with me, that's why I'm still on the thread.
So my feelings dont matter then? And why not, oh yes because I'm a silly woman. The very definition of misogyny and oppression!

 

So we'll try to intimidate by swearing at me then? How very male of you. You really can't see it though can you?

 

You may think that, but as a woman I think differently. And what exactly are my dangerous false allegations?

 

Disappointing.

 

“How very male”? You aren’t helping yourself Helen.

Misandry is a thing you know…

 

Might be the times I was brought up in but I refuse to be a cissy male

 

Shock horror, the gender question turns into arguing, abuse & name-calling.

As I felt was the desired nature of the question asked. Like I said, it's pointless having 'Cis' involved in the poll, becaue only the option of 'transgender' was there instead of T male/T female making cis redundant.

I think with most reasoned people, trans can do whatever they like in regards to their own lives. It's stupidity like Sturgeon allowing double rapist Isla Bryson into female prisons where problems arise, or when another trans person impregnates 2 female prisoners before being moved in New Jersey. Really stupid idiotic **** like that. Which in turn, only makes the lives of transgendered people even harder because people will just point to situations like that, instead of the multitude of just normal every day trans people wanting to get on with their lives.

It makes me feel uncomfortable that men are questioning a woman's experience, though I know it doesn't come from a place of malice in my opinion. I can't imagine what the experience of being catcalled and surrounded by 4/5 men is like for a woman, I can't imagine what the experience of being stalked or constantly touched by men is like, scared to say no or tell anyone. Even the more 'minor' stuff of being online and being shot down because I'm a female talking about football, something as daft as talking about football gets countless personal messages of abuse and threats. It's insane.

For those reasons, I do get why women don't want Trans people in changing rooms, toilets, prisons, domestic abuse housing (especially) etc. And no, I'm not saying all trans are x, y & z, but neither are all men, yet safe spaces are created for the tiny % that are scum bags and who do take advantage of not only women, but genuine trans people by using them as a mask to be predatory.

There's also the question about sport, which personally I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing it everywhere. Turns from genuine discussion into a hate-fuelled barrage of abuse usually.

I don't know if Helen is bigoted on this issue or not, people say she's mentioned it before, I don't know. I know I'm not comfortable claiming she is because she has a difference of opinion to me though, and as I say previously, when I haven't experienced the things she may have.

What I do know though, having a very close friend who is a trans woman, whom I met via working in a factory, is majority of trans people are good, hard working, normal people who just want to lead as normal a life as possible. Work, family, friends. She still uses the male toilets though, and she doesn't support trans women going into biological female sports or prisons, so it's a very nuanced and particular conversation what's needed. Unfortnately, most just turn into threads like this, or even worse online, with actual death threats and abuse. Piers Morgan loves it for instance.

I wish there was an easy answer.

 

Another day, another pointless argument. Was there/will there ever be a time this forum just sticks to it being football related so people don’t get offended/abused?

 

Great post. This thread was always going to pan out this way.