Scott Benton Tory MP for Blackpool South

You’re probably aware of the Overton window? The tories have gone far right. They have dragged Labour under Starmer to centre right where Cameron was.

Great analysis by Peter Oborne they you should be able to view really thought provoking. Watch it to the end. Oborne is a traditional Tory

 

He is the perfect example of a twunt

 

I spent part of this afternoon reading Red Shift, a paper from Labour Future (Corbyn topplers turned think tank). You might have heard of 'Stevenage Woman' - this is where it came from. A lot of big names are behind it, and quite frankly I found it ******* terrifying.

 

I think you are probably reading a bit too much into that mate.

Pollsters and businesses use demographic stereotyping to group people together as a target audience. There’s nothing particularly sinister in it.

It’s just a name of a group of people who can be targeted for campaigns. Generally it doesn’t get into the public domain as it’s tedious and irrelevant at best.

 

You can’t seriously mean that. Labour need to win back working class racists!! F**k me.

 

Surely that’s not your only regret. What about not punching him on the beak?

 

Have you read it?

Edit: Sorry, reading my first message back it looks like I wasn't clear. It's the actual content of that document that I found awful, not the general concept of what they're doing.

 

No, I’m saying that lots of working class people in the red wall, were switched on to vote Tory last time because of the immigration debate. If Labour don’t win them back, then the Tories stay in power.

The immigration debate is created by the Tories to create a culture war, and whether people like it or not it’s based on racial hatred. If Labour gets pulled into the culture war of immigration and brexit, rather than just appear to be neutral the daily Mail, Sun, times etc will create hysteria about Labour having an open border policy, invasion, swarm and it will cut through.

That lead in the polls will erode away over the next 18 months and we’ll be back to square one, with yet another Tory government, and I for one cannot even think of how crap that would be for the country.

 

I am aware of the Overton window. It works by the same principle as the Tories in 2010, who with Cameron were pitched as Tory light and as years progressed they edged further to right, before they surged to the right under Johnson, Truss and Sunak (with his 30p Lee, Cruella, etc).

That’s how the Overton window works, If Labour had a more radical left wing strategy now I’m pretty certain the electorate wouldn’t vote for it. Labour have to take the centre, then with further governments in future they can gradually move back to the centre left.

You can use the Overton window to suit one argument and also the other.

 

Hello Dalestyke, sorry to pick you up on this, but yes, blindingly obviously, to gain power labour need to win votes.

The UK electorate is not an intelligent one. Levels of people who leave school early, or who go on to further education are comparatively low. They do not react well to high-brow policy. 'The people don't want to hear from experts'.

The vast majority of people with a degree and in cities where the brightest are drawn vote labour and voted against brexit. Sadly this demographic is in the minority and not enough to win an election.

Labour also need to win votes amongst the disenfranchised and the red wall of working class people who voted Tory last time. To any strategist it is obvious that this means not saying anything too radical so the Daily Mail, which is the newspaper de jour in red wall areas, can't whip the crowd into a frenzy. It means not getting on your soapbox about immigration, taxing the rich, and generally helping people, it means being a bit bland. Key example of this last week, Labour front bencher mentioned higher taxes, literally after the Tory budget which upped corporation tax. Queue headlines for days in the Torygraph about how to protect your funds from 'Labour's tax raid'.

This is how elections are won, once in power Labour can implement progressive policies, but power is not easily won in this country and it certainly isn't done by being outspoken and red, at least not in the modern age. The softly-softly approach is working, Labour are palatable, look at the polls.

I feel like some on here are perfectly happy for the Tories to divide and conquer the opposition and rule forever. These people are Tory enablers and there is blood on their hands as much as anyone who votes Tory, probably more so as they should really know better.

 

Exhibit B: Lee Anderson.

Might as well stop there, not enough letters in the alphabet.

 

Priti Patel was in the same meeting so I just spent my time trying to decide who I wanted to punch the most.

 

Well said. We can roll our sleeves up, be practical and get shut of the Tories and THEN introduce more progressive policies or we can destroy the opportunity by tearing the left apart arguing about who is the most ideologically pure.

 

Not really. The tories in 2010 maintained the Overton window. There was no shift leftward. Economics were centre right Thatcherism and social policies right Toryism. They have now vacated that space and moved far right while Labour have filled the Thatcherite economic vacuum and the centre right social policy to the right of where Cameron was. Both Starmer and Sunak are to the right of Johnson (broadly) on social issues. None of that is controversial in political circles.

Peter Oborne in the link I posted you, a traditional
One nation Tory, discusses it at length. Basically as a country we are far removed from post war consensus politics. The Overton window stayed right under Blair so there is no credence to the idea that a ‘Labour’ party that is starting much further right than it did in 1997 will shift it leftwards.

Corbyn managed it briefly by cutting through the austerity narrative but now both tories and Labour are economically committed to it so it was more peeping through the curtains than moving the window.

I would recommend watching the video I sent you. From someone like Oborne it is pretty compelling and he certainly is no ‘leftie’ and I think wants Starmer to succeed (though has grave doubts about his character given the lies he told to obtain office).

 

well given that Labour is expelling anyone to the left of. 30p Lee while pitching itself as welcoming to Thatcherites that’s a discussion to have with them isn’t it?

 

My view is that anyone who voted for either strand of the centre right parties has blood on their hands. So we are where we are.

If Labour needs to ape the policies of the far right to get elected then you believe it will magically turn left I have a bridge to sell you.

 

I think anyone who delves deeply into Labour strategists or funding and understands where they are coming from would fund it terrifying. Things like supporting and maintaining and increasing privatisation of the NHS cone directly from Labour Future and from the private healthcare funding that has replaced membership led funding.

 

Points very well the ‘differences’ between Labour and tories

 

If Labour needs to ape the policies of the far right to get elected then you believe it will magically turn left I have a bridge to sell you.[/QUOTE]

Good man, when we're sat here in 5 years time and Braverman has just announced her latest god awful policy, the NHS has completely failed, the teachers are still on strike, there is zero social welfare, or mental health care, thousands of Tory sleaze scandals etc, etc, you can tell us about how you had a chance to get rid of this government and instead of voting for the only viable alternative you voted for the Monster Raving Loony party.

 

"This is how elections are won, once in power Labour can implement progressive policies."

I won't tell you how old I am, how many years I was a party member and how hollow this sounds decades on. I won't be voting for a either of the right wing parties and will be doing all I can to make sure no one else does.