This article reminds me of when my daughter took me to task!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63810468

Whilst it sounds, on this occasion, that it sounded more like an insensitive and a somewhat offensive 'interrogation' it is not entirely dis-similar to something I once did, but, to this day do not understand why my daughter got upset with me.

We had a small gathering a few years ago and I got talking to a friend of hers and of a similar age (early twenties) who was clearly of ethnic origin. She was very talented and artistic and made caricature models of people and friend (she had made one of my daughter who was the singer in a band at the time) and I struck up a conversation with her saying how she had captured her facial expressions and pose perfectly.

She later, rather brilliantly, made two characters for the top my daughter's wedding cake, one of the groom swinging a bass guitar by its neck and one of the bride swinging her microphone stand fighting off hordes of zombies climbing up the cake. ( My daughter had been a Goth in her younger student days and he was a fan of zombie movies and computer gaming) Anyway, I digress...

She was very pretty and more Polynesian looking than Asian and I was curious to know her family origins and so, in the same way I often ask people whose accents I do not recognise where they come from e.g. Canada, America, and or which state, Scotland, Ireland-North or South, Wales - North or South etc. etc. I asked her.

My daughter more or less dragged me away under some pretext and lectured me... "you can't say things like that!! "

Now in my book, being curious about people's origins and, within reason, bringing it up in conversation, is not inherently racist or offensive. Am I, wrong or being insensitive or was my daughter being over sensitive?
Her friend did not take any offence whatsoever and we had been chatting away quite well but seemed a bit bemused when my daughter subsequently apologised to her blaming me for being an old git on the spectrum!

I did have a bit of a go back at her a day or so later saying she overreacted.

 

I think it depends on exactly what you said. There are ways of broaching the subject that are absolutely fine, and ways that absolutely aren't. Without a transcript it's hard to say.

 

Seems like a bit of an overreaction by the daughter to me. Clearly the girl wasn't upset by your question.
As long as the question is framed in the right way, it's a good way to break the ice and start a conversation.

 

https://futurehackney.com/ngozi

So, as she states in the first line of her biography, written by herself, her parents are from the Caribbean and there follows a lengthy description of her pride in her Caribbean and African heritage and how she has faced racism throughout her life.
All admirable.

So why not answer a simple question, asked by an obviously very elderly woman who was out of touch to the nuances of modern social etiquette and unaware of the "insult" she was causing.
Now, yes, in her position, she should undoubtedly have been more in touch with the hole she was digging herself, but it does feel that an agenda was served.

 

The point was that I did not ask where she came from but, specifically, where her descendants originated. Questioning where someone with an obvious ethnic physical appearance, but has an English accent, comes from, after they have said they were born in the UK, does come across as having a somewhat bigoted subtext. Showing an interest in someone's cultural heritage IMO does not. To this day, thanks to my daughter's intervention, I still don't know where Cherish's ancestors came from. Like walking on eggshells these days.
I know my daughter's job, in part, involves casting actors and she spends a lot of time nowadays negotiating the minefield of cultural misrepresentation and avoiding the latest 'no-go' of not casting appropriate ethnic actors for specific ethnic roles. even when much of it is voice acting for computer game characters. Diversity is the 'buzz word' at the moment.

 

I think the key is..."she has faced racism throughout her life." After the first couple of questions the 'interrogation ' should have ended and teh subject changed. I am on the spectrum and my wife says I am "like a dog with a bone" but even I know where to draw the line. The "we got there in the end" comment also sounded very patronising and condescending and I wonder if the overall tone of the questions could have caused some increasing irritation.

 

With the caveat that we only have your point of view, I think the situations are obviously very different and you said nothing that anybody could reasonably find objectionable.

Your insistence on trying to equate the two situations under the umbrella of 'diversity' in your second post, meanwhile, is something else entirely! Given that, I'm not sure you should be surprised that people look at your seemingly innocent questions a bit more sceptically.

 

Out of interest would you have routinely asked a white person about their origins?

 

Whilst having no desire to defend the OP, I have had times when in conversation with a white person and I've not been able to place their accent, I have asked that fateful question.
Life's a bloody minefield nowadays.

 

Actually the diversity point has little or nothing to do with the point I raised in the OP.. I sort of went off at a tangent there. I do, however, which I why I did, find it quite difficult to reconcile the need to have an ethnic match for a voice actor in certain situations. Casting an actor for an ethnic avatar or CGI character based on matching real life ethnicity belies the fact that the actor's voice and accent could be an ideal match for the character. It is entirely different to on screen roles using white actors made up to play ethnic roles.

 

There was a video I watched a few week ago, a young black woman about life in general and a bit of politics, and she basically mentioned how a lot of 'white folk' are being offended on her behalf, despite it being well-meaning. Perhaps this is the case with your daughter, trying not to offend but in actuality making something of nothing.

I've been asked and have asked countless times about where I'm/they're from. If there's no ill intent and you're just having a pleasant conversation, what's the harm?

 

My point is that given exactly the same transcripts of an innocent statement or line of questioning from person A, who has written posts much like your subsequent ones in this thread, and person B, who hasn't, I'd be far less likely to give person A the benefit of the doubt.

 

Accents a bit different though. Its looking at someone's skin colour and assuming their origins are elsewhere. Fair enough if they talk about it.

 

Quite often.. yes. Surely finding out about someone you have just met and showing interest in who they are, what they do, family etc. is how people socialise and make friends. It is a good way to break the ice. It is invariably better than banging on about yourself or launching into a political debate. It is not just physical attributes but styles of dress, hairstyles etc. that can 'invite' conversation.
For example, we walk into restaurants over here and before we say a word waiters and waitresses know we are not Italian! The first question is usually "where are you from? " We always answer... 'Le Marche.' .. and they then say, "but where are you FROM? We answer "originally from England" (cue arrival of English menus!!)

We do not for one minute take the query as racist/ xenophobic since. The same happens when you meet people for the first time socially when introduced. It is common to ask and be asked where are from?

 

Maybe your daughter knows you better than you think

 

Surely physical attributes are more than skin colour and often are a clear indication that someone's origin's be they 2nd, third, fourth generation are not 'local' On that basis, engaging in conversation based on cultural heritage etc. can make for an interesting interplay. Obviously if the person has no 'connection' with their past ancestry then the conversation moves on to something different unless they are interested in your own heritage and background. This idea of being offended by being asked in conversation about your heritage is completely alien to me.

 

OK, so maybe if you put yourself in Ngozi Fulani's shoes you get fed up of the questioning, when the white charity worker next to her doesn't get asked the same.

 

You're missing the point, she was asked 'where in Africa she was from' and 'where she's really from'. Both obviously quite offensive.

If she was asked about her roots or tge questions were framed better there wouldn't have been an issue.

 

I’ve never met anyone or had a conversation with someone where I’ve asked about their heritage , if they raise it first thats another matter but why would they

 

But even then, is the interest in the white roots? Or is the question making her feel " other? "