Employment legalities....

Bit of a query of those of u with experience.....
In Nov the Mrs set up her own domestic cleaning business as a sole trader. It's gone mental and she filled the 38 hours a week she wants to do within a month. We are confident, given the level of interest that we could double the clients within a month if we employed or contracted out work. She's already had people asking if she's employing,
this is something we never intended to do, but we never expected it to take off like this.
Loathe to get into employing people due to the admin, legal costs and things like hol pay etc.

So as a hypothetical scenario, can we use other cleaners as a contractor to our business? They are given a rate for the job and work independently. They are paid by us and payment of any tax due is their responsibility.
We would require an invoice from them for our tax return......thereby hopefully encouraging them to be above board with their own business as there would be a paper trail for HMRC.
In essence we are considering expanding the business, without the complication of employees, but also keeping the tax side legit.
Is this doable and legal, preferably both!
I'm currently educating myself via various online resources, but thought I'd call on the experience of the BBS.
Ta

 

https://worksmart.org.uk/work-right...ment/what-factors-point-false-self-employment

 

https://www.williamfry.com/newsandi...gment-on-employment-status-in-the-gig-economy

 

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2017-0053-judgment.pdf

 

Fake self employment is being cracked down upon fairly harshly.

 

Thanks, I had actually read that.
To clarify, I'm not asking the question because I wish to get labour on the cheap, we tend to work for country estates, stately homes, wedding venues, so they are high end and I'm not looking at the equivalent of £10/hr rates, we'd be paying above industry average rates.
The contractors we would take on would not be random public, but colleagues, acquaintances, people we already know.
I'm not trying to con anyone, just trying to avoid extra work load to ourselves.
Looking for honest opinion? Do u interpret what I propose as falling foul of the law?

 

From my perspective as a layman (but business owner) it feels difficult to justify this. You might be just about OK, but it definitely feels like you're in a situation where you'd be trying to find loopholes and relying on technicalities, which is never a happy place to be.

What I will say is that my accountant has offered me a very reasonable all-in payroll service in the past. I didn't take her up on it (we pay weekly, which is usual for the industry, and the figures don't really stack up unless you've got relatively few employees who are paid monthly), but I was tempted, and it came to much less than I thought it would. Payroll is one of those things that can be really tricky to do yourself, but can become very easy when you're an experienced professional who really knows what's what! There's a lot more to actually employing people of course, and much of it can't be outsourced, but as far as the day-to-day payroll stuff goes you might be pleasantly surprised if you went out and got a few quotations.

 

Also, forgive me for going all lefty here, but given that you're talking about colleagues and acquaintances this does sound like a situation in which a worker co-op might be an option! I've had an absolute nightmare trying to find a cleaning company which I can trust to pay a living wage and treat its employees fairly, and there's no better guarantee of that than an employee-owned business - it's always felt like an industry which lends itself to the model brilliantly.

 

Yes. They are cleaning for you, you're sourcing the work for them, setting the hours and rates of pay etc.

 

Me again......yeah not been particularly spontaneous with this I know, I keep getting beaten down by folk on other forums who appear to know nowt but have lots of big opinions telling me I'm a 21st century slave trader.
So the business is still busy. Mrs is still turning down work or picking the ones she wants and working Saturdays for one off cleans.
So, I have 2 thoughts I'd like to run past folk, interested really in if u think it's legal. I'm fine on the ethical side thanks as I'm not out to scam anyone.

Currently we charge £17/hr on domestic cleans, we provide all products.

Idea is, become an agency, supply self employed cleaners with clients and the customer supplies products.
Customer pays the cleaner on the day @ £12/hr
Customer pays us (the agency) in advance by DD an agency fee of £80/m on weekly cleans, £60/m on biweekly cleans.
This actually works out at an average £3.50/wk rise in current cost to the customer.

The wife's company has a very good reputation locally and we trade on quality not price. We would not be just pointing any applicant randomly to a client. Everyone would be interviewed and informed of basic operating standards required and on job training given, so that her reputation is maintained through the right people.
Is this agency model legal? Is it a cleaning agency or a recruitment agency?

2nd option is, use self employed cleaners as sub contractors, paying them £12/hr per job whilst continuing to charge the customer £17/hr.

I know both these options are done, doesn't make them legal tho. The first option is my favoured, the 2nd does feel a bit dodgy.....doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Yes we are getting proper legal advice before actually doing anything, but anyones expertise or experience is helpful

 

Why can't you just employ more cleaners? That way you'd have quality control and they'd be contracted to work set hours?

 

It's an option we've not decided against absolutely.....but it feels like more hassle when there are other models out there.
Sick pay, holiday pay, maternity pay amongst others. If it is the only way to maintain quality then we may go that route.
Thing is, I'm employed 48 hours a week and it's a bit chicken and egg, I want to become part of the business but can't give up work until we have a larger income. Can't get a larger income if I don't give up work. The admin and recruitment part would be down to me and employing feels more high maintenance than the agency models as a start up.

 

Which ever you pick, I would avoid customer supplying products.
Your trading on your reputation and allowing variants like that can quickly get out of hand.

In answer to your question, some of the larger Contract Valeter’s at the dealerships are going down the route of changing from providing labour via sub-contractors to becoming an agency to get round the new tax laws involving the ‘gig’ economy.

 

Totally agree with u, but have been advised that if we supply products it's an indicator that I'm employing rather than subbing or an agency.

 

You can insist on subcontractor supplying and using set products though?

 

I'm definitely not an expert but don't agencies have to pay holidays too now?

 

Steer well clear from employing people mate if you can, that's where the trouble starts. Running a business is quite straight forward. Employing staff is an all different ball game .

 

Yes, they do.

 

depends…

 

Resurrecting this as I'll keep all my legal queries together......
So in my current contract of employment it states.....

"During the period of 6 months beginning with the date on which your employment ends you will not persuade or attempt to persuade any person employed by the company to leave the Company's employment"

2 points on this.....one, is the word "persuade" key? If employees approach me and the company cannot prove I made the first move, is this enforceable?
Secondly, if those employees approach me as a contractor on a self employed basis and I sub contract to them, again, the clause is unenforceable?

Please, I'm not looking for moral judgement on this one, I've done 25years and the company have had more than their pound of flesh from me. I am qualm free.