The F1 debacle

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Redstone, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    A very good article on the subject from Andrew Benson at the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59951382

    Perhaps it's telling that the BBC don't really have any F1 rights to worry about.
    Sky and their team have done a very poor job of covering this and I think it's the case they don't want to say anything to upset the rights holders.
     
  2. S74 Red

    S74 Red Well-Known Member

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    Just posturing from Hamilton. He’s had far more decisions go for him than against him over the years. Spoilt brat. He’ll be there.
     
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  3. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    Even if it is, that's almost irrelevant to the real issue.
     
  4. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Andrew Benson is famously one of the least impartial Lewis Hamilton fanboys though. He is and always has been about as biased as it gets sadly so I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt. Chris medland is the best F1 reporter
     
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  5. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    To be honest while the main headline of the article is about Lewis considering his future I was just pleased to see a F1 journo actually admit the rules were applied incorrectly. Whatever the motives for doing so.
     
  6. S74 Red

    S74 Red Well-Known Member

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    Well, it is and it isn’t. I’m not saying for a second the laws were applied correctly. But many inconsistencies in said rules have fallen in his favour in the past. It’s just no-one noticed cos He’s ‘our lad’ etc.
     
  7. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen a such a blatant and horrible application in all my years of watching F1. Yes it's a regualtion heavy sport. But the way the rules were basically just ignored by the race director was unheard of.
    Personally I was kind if hoping Max would win it just to shake things up a bit. But the way it happened was to the determinant of F1.
    I think Lewis will likely race this year. However the fact the most successful driver in the history of the sport is even considering walking away because he has lost faith in the governing body should speak volumes.
     
  8. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    I think Hamilton is a great driver but a moaning minny of a person.

    But the more it has sunk in to me as to what actually happened, looking at it with all the information, the more I think he's been unsportingly and right royally shafted.

    Quite simply, he's been cheated.
     
  9. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I wonder whether deep down he feels let down by mercedes who made the wrong strategy call (only the wrong call because of Masi but still)
     
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  10. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    What was the wrong call on their part? They couldn't pit him either before or after Verstappen at the end as far as I can make out.

    The only thing I think Hamilton could have done, given the determination to make it a race at the end no matter what, was give Verstappen no room to pass on the inside. Then he had half a chance of steering into him and / or pushing him wide and carrying on.

    "Let them race"? Well let them take each other out then, if there's no rules after all.
     
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  11. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

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    they could have told bottas to stop on the track, the safety car would have been forced to stay out. Race ends Hamilton wins
     
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  12. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    It depends I think. If you think that Masi was deliberately trying to hand Max the title then there's nothing mercedes could have done because he would have made the decision to benefit max regardless. If you think he didn't care who won but wanted to create a showdown great for TV ending to the season with a last lap to remember then they could have anticipated that and brought Lewis in. That way he would have been on fresh tyres himself and would have been in the position max was in.

    I think they made the common sense decision but in hindsight it was (due to Masi's crazy decision) the wrong one.
     
  13. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    They'd have been done for cheating. Hamilton may have forfeited points as being part of the sabotaging team, and especially if the team told Bottas to do that.

    They'd have been better having a code for "Valteri, please crash gently in an appropriate place".
     
  14. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    It's not quite the same but I wonder if there's anything in the rules stopping the second driver from deliberately dropping to the back and being lapped so that he could hold the other car up again under blue flags
     
  15. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

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    yep it definitely could have been engineered. But then no one expected Masi to do something totally bonkers
     
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  16. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    It's a bad job (rather than a bad call) when your call depends upon reading the mind of a bloke who's making it up as he goes along.
     
  17. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    I blame Queen Latifa.
     
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  18. Arc

    Archerfield Well-Known Member

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    Without a crash from ‘Queen Latifi’ Masi couldn’t have impacted the result.
     
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  19. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Mercedes didn’t make the wrong call though They hadn’t a crystal ball and the right strategy was to leave Hamilton out on track. Red Bull had no choice but to pit Verstappen and hope for a miracle. Because of the timings had Lewis come in after Max he would have been behind him. Although on the same tyres but even had Masi pulled the same stunt and there is no way of knowing if he would Lewis would have had one last to pass him on The same tyres knowing the Max could afford to crash. It made no sense. I think Lewis was passing the pit lane when the safety car was deployed so no time to call him in. But even if there was then Max stays out and wins the race unless masi does something really dumb.

    Mercedes made some mistakes during the season but leaving Lewis out wasn’t one of them
     
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  20. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the race itself .

    1 Mercedes could not bring Hamilton in as if the race director had adhered to the rules then Since Hamilton was leading he would have been into the pits first and MV and others would have stayed out so Hamilton would have been behind whether or not the SC stayed out to the end of the race.

    2 SKY and others ignored the fact that the reason that the Stewards gave for dismissing the Merc appeal that MV overtake on Hamilton prior to the restart was , in fact, nonsense. They stated that the SC had entered the pit lane son MV was not under safety car rules. HOWEVER, the rule is you cannot overtake until the lead car crosses the line and it has nothing to do with whether or not the SC lights are out or it has entered the pit lane. (remember the fuss when in an earlier race the Leading car (MV?) waited until the start line on a very long straight to make the break which resulted in a huge pile up). Not that MV did anything wrong on that occasion he was just trying to prevent being slip-streamed down the long straight if he had 'gone early'. The stewards had the clear opportunity to 'save the FIA blushes' in front of millions of F1 fans and casual observers and awards MV a 5 second penalty for the clear infringement but chose to ignore that 'get out of jail free' card. Hamilton finished less than 5 seconds behind MV so would have won the WDC. The fuss would have blown over by now.

    3 IF Masi is not demoted or sacked then it clearly indicates teh FIA don't give a toss about fair play or the genuine F1 fans.

    4 Going forward........ my main concern is that MV will now feel his driving style is vindicated. That style involves, on chicanes, for example, coming in 'hot' on the inside of the first corner to draw alongside, but then closing the gap on the second corner where he would be on the outside. That forces the lead car (going into the chicane) to either leave the track, back out or collide. He did this regularly during the season not just to Hamilton but other drivers, hence their request for clarification regarding overtaking particularly his other technique of running people off track by running wide when on the inside. A perfect example of the former transgression, is the first corner at Abu Dhabi where he made no attempt to leave room after his lunge up the inside when LH had clearly got track position at the start down the first straight. Someone posted a brilliant picture on the BB at the time of MBs car position entering the chicane. Horner claims (as he does on other occasions that MV was in front) but that was ONLY because MV had come in so fast he could not make the corner AND crucially leave sufficient room for the other car on the outside. Rules clearly state you MUST leave a car width unless you are a car length clear of the other car .Therefore logically, if you are not already ahead entering the corner, assuming the grip levels are the same (which they will be at the start of a race your speed on the inside must be lower to negotiate the turn) MV has forced many cars off track with this tactic and gained places often without being penalised. CH's own tactic is usually to get onto the RD and deflect complaining about the other driver e.g. gaining an advantage like he did at Abu Dhabi when MV should really have had a penalty for forcing a driver of the track

    I know anti LH /pro MV fans will point to Silverstone but that, in spite of the stewards decision (don't trust their decision making as it was too inconsistent throughout the season) and all the hyperbole of MV being put into hospital by LH, was completely different.
    a) LH, whilst he did miss the apex still left yards of space at a very wide corner and the collision occurred at a point where there was around 3 or 4 car widths between MV and the outside edge of the track.
    b) MV turned in when not clear of LH which he claimed (How could he be "clear" if LH clipped MVs rear wheel causing him to spin??
    c) Most replays available seem to miss the vital few seconds prior to the contact, notably, a second or two before where you can clearly see Hamilton brake (or lift) when he realised MV was turning in. Again logically Hamilton was on the limit so could not tighten the turn (hence missing the apex but MV could (and should) have opened the steering (since he had room on the outside) but he would not have taken the position and Max being Max stubbornly tried to take the place when he should have been more circumspect.

    Now MV is WDC, and in the absence of any acknowledgement or clarification from the FIA that what he is doing is causing consternation amongst other drivers I expect his style will not change. The rule book needs to be clear cut and not open to interpretation, Penalties and stewards decisions MUST be consistent throughout the season. Contact between team principals and the Race director during the race (other than for safety reasons) must be banned and , frankly, Masi must be replaced with the role split between 2 people as was the case in the days of Charlie Whiting. Excuses from the media and pundits that the 'poor dear, did not get enough help and support and was overstretched , papered over the fact he is too weak and was bullied by team principals (mainly but not exclusively by Christian 'let them race as long as MV comes out top' Horner). Also arrogant when speaking to Wolff with the infamous " It is called a motor race Toto" response when questioned over the decision to override SC protocol.

    The silence , several weeks on, from the FIA is deafening. I suspect Liberty and the FIA may be hoping it will all blow over when the new season starts. In the words of the late great Murray Walker (who would be turning in his grave after the farcical end to last season) they are "very much mistaken"
     

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