Hypothetical proposition (Non-footy).....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53920146

Reading the above (and in no way is this a 'defence of Govt) but...

The article considers there has been a shift in strategy from one where ministers are held accountable and the position where ultimately ' the buck stops' to one where the most senior civil servants are now accountable.

Given recent events that argument appears to almost certainly be true.

However, it could be argued that the shift is not necessarily there to protect incompetent ministers (although there are clearly some that regardless of where they go seem to leave a trail of disaster in their wake..... Chris Grayling anyone!).

IF, as has always been the case, the current Government is 'dictatorial' i.e. Civil Servants have to 'tow the line' and Ministers ignore/override advice from departmental 'experts' in the Civil Service, then, clearly any failures can be laid at the door of the relevant minister, cabinet or PM depending on who determined the policy/strategy to be followed.
Many people complain in their own jobs of micro management from Management impeding them from doing their jobs efficiently and yet many seem to expect National Governments. i.e. PMs and Cabinet Ministers to do exactly that rather than 'manage' i.e. delegate roles and responsibilities to those most suited to a particular task and build the strategy based on feedback.
So.... There have been increasing signals and statements over the past several months that Government, from Junior Ministers up to the PM, HAVE been delegating responsibility and NOT 'laying down the law'.

Critics and in particular the media are quick to accuse the Government of U-turns, indecision, muddle, lack of leadership and lack of integrity from individuals (i.e. failing to resign when things go pear shaped). We have seen on several occasions, situations where, for example the PM has been accused of not taking things seriously or 'going missing' when in fact he has even gone on record on at least one occasion after being accused of the former that" there was no point him attending as the person assigned was an expert and had far more knowledge on the issue so was far more qualified than him to deal with it.

Again hypothetical but could it be that this shift in methodology has exposed the shortcoming of the 'Establishment' where senior civil servants are held up by the media as the intelligensia because they come from Ox-Bridge/Eton/Public school backgrounds (noting many Politicians come from the same backgrounds and yet are derided as only being where they are through 'jobs for the boys' networks)?IThey have always seemed 'bullet proof' even when , for example MOD procurement policies were exposed as a shambles, It has always been ministers that have resigned. It seems to be the expected thing to do. Why?
The role of Govt.. i.e. management of UK should be about managing resources and employing the best people to advise on policy and strategy. In any business, if the board are badly advised or a major error is made and things go pear shaped, initially, it is the employee(s) responsible who 'carries the can'. Constant failures ultimately end with shareholders (in the case of Govt -voters) holding the CEO to account and he/she is then removed.

Given the above, perhaps the recent trend of removing Senior Civil servants is not as sinister or a 'power grab' as many commentators are alleging. In the same way, frequent changes in policy, albeit far from ideal, whilst signalling confusion and indecision can be viewed as either a rudderless Govt or one that is listening to people and responding to changing circumstances.

No doubt, political views play a major part in which side of the fence people sit regarding the above, and there is no doubt the situation both regarding Covid and the Exams fiasco has been a total mess but my point is who is to blame and who should really fall on their sword, and should trial by media/social media (always politically driven on both sides) be the arbitrator when not party to all the facts?

Like I said, I am not defending Govt, nor do I come down on ones side or the other of this hypothesis but just suggesting an alternative to the current narrative. We all want a 'listening' Govt but not one that lack clear direction or leadership. Restructuring of the Civil Service 'Establishment' may be a good thing or a bad thing.

 

As I understand it the company handling the exam results farce was one championed by Gove and Cummings. The government also had the opportunity to do a u turn like Scotland had to do, before the English A level results came out. Personally I fail to see how that isnt a government mistake?

 

Not a defence of government? Call me a cynic but I doubt you'd post the same hypotheticals if the shitshow of the last 6 months had been on Labour's watch...

I think your point only has merit where circumstances are relatively normal. If there is a **** up then yes, it may be that the civil servant responsible should fall on their sword. Here though we are in unprecedented times and need strong and able leadership. That is the responsibility and duty of the government and it has failed completely. Johnson filled it based on cronyism and who would toe the line rather than ministerial ability and we are seeing the results of that approach.

 

Ooooh liar, liar pants on fire...

 

Not that I disagree but you came uncomfortably close to “strong and stable”

 

Advisers advise; ministers decide. That was the old motto, wasn't it? So ministers ought to take the responsibility for decisions. If civil servants fail to efficiently execute the policies that ministers have decided upon then they should bear the responsibility.

That said, it's rarely black and white and to some extent I think each case can usually be viewed on it's merits.

Two failures of accountability: 1. Jenrick had contact/entertainment from a party in regard to whom he had to make a quasi-judicial decision and decided in that person's favour. He didn't walk, hiding behind the fact that he had to abandon his decision and was forced into referring a matter for re-determination. His lack of integrity and refusal to walk when found out were brazen. 2. Amber Rudd resigned over the aftermath of 'Windrush' when there were strong signs that any error had been down to her being let down by her senior departmental civil servants.

In my view, Jenrick, Williamson and Hancock should all have walked from this government at various times this year.

 

A perfect summary.

 

This is a cracking impression of someone who does then...

What we have here is yet more right wing bias propaganda. Even when it is patently obvious to most that the people in government are making a complete pigs ear of it and are not fit for purpose, the news outlets start a narrative blaming someone else.

The civil service is probably an old boys club filled with advisers who couldn’t advise me where my arse was rather than my elbow. But at the end of the day the responsibility for that and for any decisions made on their ‘advice’ is with the minister involved.

The buck stops there. There has been repeated evidence of complete incompetence from senior ministers, the prime minister himself is a man who shy’s away from responsibility and culpability and will, in my view, oversee the worst and possibly cruellest period of U.K. government in my living memory over the next few years.

 

The Tory’s will blame anything and anyone rather than take responsibility .
If it’s not Labours last administration its their partners the Lib Dem’s . Incidents during The lockdown was Stupid peoples fault for not grasping their clear and precise instructions (sarcasm intended) and now it’s the civil servants anybody but the Tory ministers .
But the biggest Criticism goes to them that vote for them . Everybody knows what they are but people still vote for them citing any excuse to do so .

 

The only response on the thread I consider worth responding to. In spite of staying categorically that the OP was Not a defence but a controversial alternative proposal to create debate. Sadly, and as I expected,the usual suspects chose to make it,yet again,personal and rather than debate drag up the tired old.. I am right wing Tory defender of this Government. For what is worth I agree with 95% of your post and certainly the argument that certain Ministers should have resigned,but not sure the buck should automatically stop at the highest level every single time as media/social media/opposition (whoever that may be at any time) seem to bay for blood.

 

Gove and Cumming's have been dismantling the cabinet office and civil service for months. My own department puts out right wing propaganda which you'd expect to see in the Daily Mail.

Since the election it's worth researching just how money has gone to contractors who are close to member's of the cabinet. All awarded outside of cabinet office approved tendering protocols.

They tried to diddle a load of Border Force apprentices out of 5k each. Thankfully my union won that one.
Boris promised more officers for Brexit, what you got was agency staff without training in uniforms earning £21 a hour (agency took £6 of that per hour) looking pretty for the papers and Joe public and apprentices on less than national minimum wage.

 

And he wonders why people think he's condescending.

You claim not to be defending the government, then define a scenario in which their behaviour would be tolerable (which doesn't match what is actually happening). If you're not defending them, you're definitely playing Devil's Advocate.

Then, as people respond to your post 'intending to create debate', you come back with how all responses are worthless because they're disagreeing with you.

It wouldn't be as bad if you didn't do it about once a week.

 

Well I’d suggest your ‘hypothetical’ is more or less a ‘fantasy’.

I’d suggest a study of the civil service code and a bit of research into some senior civil servants.

 

It may of course be that Williamson is only still there so that he can take the rap when not every parent is happy to return their kid to school!

 

Remember the symbolism of the whip and notebook on his desk. He knows their darkest secrets.