Morning papers. Lockdown & adele

I think it’s way too soon to even ease the lockdown. And I say that as one of the cultists who believed the lockdown wasn’t a good thing, initially.

The way I see it - we’ve locked down for seven weeks. So I’ve got on with it. If we now exit too soon, we will be back to square one. Then we really are up the **** pipe.

I’d prefer now (whilst we are locked down) to make sure we only ease it when it’s safe to do so. As Farnham points out up the thread, there’s not a prayer that we’ve ticked all five of those boxes.

Any easing now is done purely for economical reasons. Yet the economy will suffer more if there’s another wave.

Good job we’ve good people running the country and making these decisions....

 

Cultists. Because we question the approach we are currently being guided upon based on science provided by continually discredited scientists.

As it stands and until someone can provide evidence to the contary Covid 19 is statisically a non fatal illness to the overwhelming majority of the UK population.

I understand the sheilding of the vunerable etc and why it was undertaken and why it should continue.

Given the constant updating of information the key risk groups can be clearly identified and thats where you target your isolation and shielding on a voluntary basis not a forced basis.

Let them be the ones who make the choice of wether or not they want to live whats left of their life in isolation.

When you get to a certain age in life you are quite aware that a bout of flu or that nasty virus thats going around could end you but that never stopped that generation.

Lets be right until the collective arse dropping around corona virus occured many of us have caught and transmitted viral infections without even realising.

That random cough you had on the bus might have spread over other passengers and the virus might have been what killed poor peggy sue on the front seat and youd not have battered an eye lid.

As I have said people are more scared now of catching Covid than the actual disease its self.

Washing keys when they get in. Changing and washing the clothes they wore to the Asda. Im walking miles a day the amount of people walking into on coming traffic to 'social distance'. Its frightening.

We are allowing fear to erode our common sense and civil liberties.

At some point you have to make a choice. Fight or flight. Do you face your fear or hide under a rock?

Ill assume that you live with a partner. Statisitcally one of you will get cancer.

Its not a nice or pleasant thought however,

Are you going to stop eating processed meat like bacon? Buying chicken in the supermarket in those tubs? Drinking beer? Eating popcorn at the cinema?

Ill lijely die of cancer. Its the biggest killer in my family. Both sides.

I am having a big **** off kebab for my tea tonight. Ive half a bottle of red to wash it down.

Life is for living and doing things that make you happy. Be it Djing, reading comics based around the holocaust or even walking the dog. Theres many examples unique to our own circumstances.

When you cease doing things you enjoy you are no longer living. You are exisiting. Be it pre or post Covid 19.

Because lets be right. Theres only two things in life you can predict that will happen.

Taxes and death.

 

Opening up too early will cause far more damage to the economy than we have seen thus far.

I don't know if you can't see that or are just ignoring it because you want to go to the pub, but that's the reality.

 

Yes the Adele weight loss (gastric band not diet) is getting a lot of press.

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2020/01/blind-item-2_5.html?m=1

The 600+ deaths of yesterday kept off the front page and newspapers making out a loosening of the "draconian measures" is a good thing whilst the nation has #KeepTheLockdown as the number one trending topic on Twitter. They need to get antibody tests available to everyone as soon as possible because if the test says you've had Covid you should be OK.

 

Your approach to this seems to be to battle it with bravado, the virus couldn’t care less whether you are scared of it or not. If everyone just shrugged their shoulders and said ‘I’m not scared’ and didn’t change their behaviour at all, how big do you think the death toll would be now? Yes, anyone could get cancer, that doesn’t mean they may as well get this first. The amount of excess deaths there’s been already shows it’s in addition to all the things that people may normally die of, pointing out there’s loads of other things you could die of too doesn’t lessen the danger of this thing.

 

I don't watch the news anymore, it's too depressing but going on the increase in traffic and people passing the house I thought lockdown had already been eased or even lifted completely, businesses seem to be slowly opening like B&Q and KFC and there are numerous others, I've seen locally tips have just sprung open today, so what's changed?

 

Great post, the virus is potentially here forever, we can’t stay in lockdown forever. We have to adapt our lifestyles accordingly and ease lockdown gradually. The overwhelming of the NHS with this first wave thankfully didn't happen it’s a certainty that there’ll be other waves because this thing ain't going away and the reality is that unfortunately people will continue dying until a cure is found. We need to protect ourselves as much as we can whilst carrying on, there’s no choice, It’ll be back via freight, tourism, travel whatever we do. Staying in the house forever isn’t an option. Tin hat at the ready !

 

Spot on.

"YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, I'LL DO WHAT I WANT"

The point about cancer is ridiculous too. Yes statistically me or the wife will get cancer. But we don't go doing stuff that will increase our chances. Ending the lockdown will increase the chance of more people getting Covid. It's like me saying "well, there's a 25% chance of me getting lung cancer, I may as well have a cig or two. I'm gonna die anyway".

 

unless you die obviously

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...elp-provide-shield-immunity-study-claims.html

That would work if scientists can be sure it would all work.

 

The lockdown was designed to give us breathing time and the ability to prepare. Unfortunately the Govt is completely **** so we are nowhere near ready. Though I accept the argument that they are so incompetent we may never be ready so it’s a tricky one

 

Its almost as if they want it to smash through the country, like a kinda 'herd immunity'. 680 folk tested positive on the day we started the half arsed lockdown. 6700 tested positive yesterday when were easing it, seems barmy. I reckon herd immunity was the plan all along, kill off some plebs. Soon as some heat come their way they put us in this so called lockdown, hoping and probably assuming we wouldnt comply so they could blame us but in the main we did comply. Now theyre just gonna crack on with it now, they can hardly make a bigger clusterf**k than they have already. Boris johnson isnt fit to put my bin out.

 

If TV news paid tribute to each person who had died of CV19 just a name and a photograph for 6 seconds it would take them 2 days to get through everyone if you use the Govts figures of 4 days if you used the real ones

 

You could use that argument for anything, it’s great. I can imagine a guy refusing to wear a condom and telling the girl (or guy) ‘you’re probably going to die eventually of cancer anyway so who cares if you get an STD? Live a little, life’s for enjoying not existing and not wearing one would make me happy’.

 

Car *repair* garages are classed as essential and have been open all the time.

Car sales garages? How many people are really stupid enough to spend money on a new car in the middle of a pandemic and resulting economic crash?

 

Can you absolutely, definitely guarantee that recovery will not leave you with any long-term health effects? Roughly one in three with chicken pox gets shingles in their life - as a painful rash. Imagine sequelae on that level with a disease that affects the respiratory system like COVID-19? We don't even know for certain that you are actually immune on recovery or how long that lasts - you could have a second wave in six months crashing through those who have recovered because their immune system is weakened by the first infection. It could also mutate into something more fatal (a la Spanish Flu in 1919) - more exposure is more chance of mutation.

And as for opening up, I'm 49 slightly overweight, healthy male, so my risk is low. My wife is 57 with medically controlled type 2 diabetes and hypertension putting her in an higher-risk category. On the face of it, I should go out as normal, but there is a significant risk to her health from the disease. I'm not the only one in this position, just on here.

 

As has been said elsewhere , the easing of lockdown doesn’t mean the pandemic is over it just means there’s a bed for you in ICU

 

Absolutely right.

The problem with opening up and saying "Stay at home if you want to" is that further stacks the cards against the most vulnerable in society. Without set in stone rules, people will feel they have to put themselves at risk not fall behind, professionally, academically etc.

And what about all those with undiagnosed health conditions, due to not being able to get a diagnosis on an underfunded and overcrowded NHS? Do we just let those people die?

I have a mate that has heart palpitations, shortness of breath and uncontrollable coughing. He's had this for years and I genuinely think he's going to keel over every time he starts coughing. He has never got a diagnosis of anything, despite going to specialists and specialists over 2 years. He eventually gave up, because they told him he was wasting his time. He quite clearly has a serious condition, you'd know that if you heard him cough. It's not a cough that could be faked. Do we just let him die?

He isn't classed as vulnerable, because he hasn't got a 'shielding' letter.
If he had a less compassionate employer, or worked somewhere like ASOS that's still open but unable to work from home, he would have been let go by now or at the very least gone down to SSP, because he would have refused to go in.

Does anyone on the 'Open it up for the healthy' camp have a solution to the above? By the nature of it being undiagnosed, there's no way to know how many in the UK have undiagnosed conditions, but I'm sure we all know some.

 

Of course he can’t. Just like he can’t guarantee that he won’t die in a car accident on the commute into work. The point is in the level, degree and extent of risk. It seems to me that there’s a significant proportion of people that want to lock everyone up until the disease is completely eradicated and the degree of risk is zero. Like we can live forever, in a life free from risk. I’m sorry to disappoint them, but that just isn’t possible.

So what some of us are advocating for, is reduced restrictions on those individuals healthy enough where the degree of risk is small enough to be deemed acceptable, which will in turn allow a reduced burden on the state and economy, and a lower likelihood of widespread poverty and social issues. Now I personally would say that that is all under 45s - including children - with no known underlying health conditions. I accept that some will draw the line in a different place on that one - that’s fine - but that’s our argument. That’s it. So please can people stop with the virtue signalling moralistic reactions to us as if we’re some sort of ethics free monsters who want to euthanise the over 70s, and instead engage with the actual arguments we’re making. Or you could just say we’re ‘cultists’ and ‘unforgivable’ because it’s easier than actually thinking, and listening to what we’re saying and calmly putting a counter point.

Of course it won’t be perfect and of course there will be issues on an individual basis and of course we don’t have all the answers. But neither is ignoring all the wider social and economic problems and pretending we can just have an 18 month hibernation period until the scientists sort it out, and little Rishi will just pay for it all from his magic money tree until that happy day arrives.