Barnsley council have ruled that throwing cigarette butts on the floor is to be allowed

People have also wrongly been arrested for murder.
Anyone who legitimately accidentally drops litter should refuse to pay the fine which has illegally been given. That again doesnt mean in any way that people who deliberately litter our fesgile aand irreplaceable planet should be allowed to pretend it never happened

 

Litter is litter.

 

If I get caught dropping dead leaves from my car engine bay could I get a fine?

 

Only if your name is Mother Nature

 

Can't remember the last time I went out and accidentally stole a car

 

The litter police ought to pop to the drop in centre on pitt street in tarn when its operating and watch the patrons come out with their bags of free goodies only to chuck the empty packets of whatever they get all over the street. I'd love to see them try and enforce a fine on to someone who would never pay them. This is all after watching them chuck their empty cans of whatever strength beer into the bushes on their approach to the said drop in centre.

 

Nor can i remember the last time somebody accidentally deliberately threw something on the floor

 

I've been fined for littering twice. Once when my dog did a sh*t on a playing field. For once I'd gone out without poo bags. I collected a load of leaves, picked it up, walked to where all the the thick bushes are and threw it under there, way out of the way of anyone, where it could rot down and not be an inconvenience. Went back with more leaves to ensure there were absolutely no remnants. Was watched the entire time by council workers who fined me for littering. If I'd just left it I would have been done for dog fouling which is a much smaller fine. Two weeks earlier I'd spent an entire afternoon clearing up the entire recreation ground, picking up all the cans and bottles and other rubbish and taking it to the dumpit.

Second time was for dropping a cig butt. I was outside the train station. Council worker was inside filming me walking up and down looking for a bin. There wasn't one so dropped it in a coke can that had been left on the ground.

Also I've twice been accused of dropping a cig butt by less than eagle eyed council workers and told I was getting fined but as I still had the cig in my hand each time there wasn't a lot they could do about it. Apology would have been nice.

 

So you think it's impossible to drop something without realising it, and even if you do realise and pick it back up you should still be fined

 

If you always give them the option to be able to pick it up then there’s no reason to stop dropping it. They’ll just always drop it and know that the worst case scenario is that they may just have to pick it up again.

 

As a teacher, if a child does something wrong, do you talk to them and tell them why it was wrong and give them the chance to improve their behaviour, or simply punish them for it?

Not having a go, and it's a rhetorical question really, because I suspect it's the former. I guess I'm asking, if you do think the former is usually the best option and gets the better results, why not use it in this situation?

 

And fining someone whilst leaving said litter on the ground helps who?

 

You realise that throughout this thread i have made it extremely clear im talking sbout DELIBERATELY throwing litter on the ground right? Which thread have you been reading?

 

Big difference between teaching young primary school children right from wrong and and doing the same to grown adults

 

I thought about this and the difference is because it is much harder to recognise a member of the public again than it is a school child that you know well. If they took a name the first time and let you pick it up then sure (not suggesting that should be a thing). At school I’d give someone a second chance the first time but if I caught them doing the wrong behaviour again they would be punished. How would a council worker know that someone had already had their second (or third, or fourth) chance?

 

In your opening post where is the word deliberately

 

Depends if you think people are ever too old to learn or modify their behaviour. I don't. And I don't think the stick works in most situations. I never drop litter anyway, so the fines I got didn't modify my behaviour. What it did stop me doing was ever clearing the park again as I thought the fine I got was monstrously unfair.

 

What did you get the fine for again?

 

The word throw is used. Do you often accidentally throw things?

 

They wouldn't. And you won't stop some people dropping litter by talking to them. But you won't stop them by fining them either. You will stop some people littering by talking to them. They're not being malicious, they're doing it absent mindedly. They know it's wrong, but they're not thinking. By talking to them you'll make them think. They'll feel embarrassed for dropping it, they'll pick it up, they'll say sorry and the next time they'll put it in the bin. You fine them and you'll make them them angry and the next time they might put their litter in the bin or they might drop it out of revenge/injustice/bloody mindedness. I don't think we make society better by fining people for such small crimes.