Grenfell effigy

By broadcasting it to the entire world on the internet.

As I said in my post earlier, you don't have editors and 4 channels now. Bloody complex. Times are a changin'.

 

Agree with this a lot. On top of that, in the same week 189 people lost their life in a plane crash in Indonesia. Barely a dickie about it in the news. It was a mere footnote.

 

If they had done it on a public field i think there may be a case to answer but it was in their private garden. Maybe this will set a precedent but if it does then people are going to be very careful what they do in future. This is an extreme case of bad taste and is unbelievably callous but I still don't see what law has been broken.

 

I don't mean to denigrate the possible actions of the pilot but I don't think its clear that he saved further loss of life by getting clear of a built up area, unless you have seen some evidence that I missed. It is likely that the problem was a sudden one and once the tail rotor goes on a chopper it is basically uncontrollable. You can't glide them like a plane. Like a flying brick, it just falls straight out of sky there and then.

 

Are there laws about publishing offensive material?. If so, and that is the charge, then it really only applied to the person who uploaded the video. The others in the video were appalingly callous and very unfunny but had it not been uploaded to the internet then it would have been no different to any offensive attempt at humour anyone and everyone has at times made to a private audience. This ability to record and publish everything and anything is changing society in a big way and too many still don't understand the consequences.

 

There was a helicopter pilot on LBC last week and he said that the failure they suspect to have caused this crash would have meant that the pilot could not stop the chopper coming down but he had some control over the direction of the descent, albeit in a very short amount of time.

It's likely he knew he was going to die but he did everything he could to ensure that nobody on the ground was killed.

 

If its true that he did take such action as he could then I sincerely hope it is proved when they assess the black box so he can rightly be hailed a hero. I was just suggesting that at this stage it isn't clear that the poor bloke had any control and any chance to influence the crash site. Either way, its got to be the worst way to go, knowing that it is coming and there is nothing you can do to avoid it.

Being macabre about it, they say there are 2 kinds of helicopter pilot - lucky ones and dead ones. We have probably all been in a car when the engine has conked at some point in our lives. When it happens in a chopper, and it is just an engine at the end of the day in the same vein, then you generally don't live to tell the tale. Not sure I would ever be brave enough to get in one myself.

 

That is a very thought provoking post. Nice one.

 

Have we?

I can't remember myself burning a model of a building where people lost their lives in a fire and making racist comments. Must have forgotten that one.

 

I think he means told a sick joke.

 

I'm not sure but doesn't the offensive materials law cover inciting violence and hatred? I'm not even sure who uploaded the video but it wasn't one of the idiots laughing was it? When this story first broke i expected it to be a group of drunken teenage lads so to find out four of them are in their 40s or 50s is just unbelievable. The fact that they have reached the age they have and still think this is an acceptable way to behave is something I can't get my head around. Hearing men of my age sniggering like they are and saying what they are saying is beyond the pale.

 

I did.
Or bad taste/inappropriate comments.

Etc.

 

They handed themselves in and were arrested for "public order offences"

So can only assume that becuase it caused social unrest and anger. That's the term they have applied to it.

But I'm no copper either.

 

I agree in principle with everything you say because the telling of an inappropriate joke feels different to the time and effort they have put in to producing this. I wouldn't have found it remotely funny had I been there.

But in general terms I feel the need to defend people's ability to be offensive in private otherwise we truly would end up in an Orwellian state. The thing is, within my own social circle for example, and in the tightly controlled confines of either face to face meets ups in the pub or our private whatsapp group, we can be as un PC and downright offensive as anyone else at times. None of us, I would strongly argue, are nasty or offensive people in any way, quite the opposite, we are quite PC and know where boundaries lie. But the key point is "know your audience". We have all seen the Jimmy Saville and Maddie McCann jokes for example over the years. There are "jokes" we share with each other, almost to appall ourselves and each other, that I wouldn't even go on to share with my wife.

The real "crime" here is uploading this vile nonsense to the internet. People upload stuff to youtube for example because it is so easy to do, and they are too thick to appreciate that they may as well have gone on to prime time news on the telly to tell their joke. They don't get that they have just shared it with the whole world.

The internet should come with a warning to the terminally stupid. But being offensive in private should never be a crime. Otherwise we are all in trouble.

 

I get that mate, I have no issue with the facts so far but there is a very big jump from arrest to charge to conviction. It will be very interesting to see how this unfolds.

 

I think we are in agreement and I am not disputing the being offensive in public point, I just think the boundaries become very unclear at this point because although the video is now in the public domain was the act intended to be private between a few mates. Who actually uploaded the video for public consumption? For example if these dimwits shared the video with another friend who decided to upload it out of disgust do they, the person uploading it, get into trouble? This could become a legal minefield especially in these times of everybody being an amateur cameraman. I think John Peachy made a great point that times are changing and we may all need to rethink what we do.

 

I see your point and agree entirely. Legal minefield is an appropriate description.

 

I think it's ok factoring in the effect the Internet has on public opinion, but surely the moral is, if you don't do these silly things, you've nothing to worry about?

Apparently 19 different nationalities lived in in Grenfell, these bozos took the time to make this effigy, racist remarks were made, and to make things worse for me, the tower fire was in their own city and they were all laughing.

Great opportunity now demonstrate that we are a tolerant, non racist country by making an example of them, just by having the public outcry, even if charges aren't brought.

 

From what we know the pilot couldn't do anything, once the rear rotor goes, if they haven't got a lot of forward momentum there is nothing they can do to control the helicopter. The pilot was probably trying his best to get control but realistically he had no chance.

 

It's worse than racist.

It's peopleist.

People died in that fire, people of all races creeds and colours.

To show such little regard for human life and the feelings of their friends and relations is bordering on, maybe even is psychopathic.