How many more points?

No, as you say, I am making an assumption.

 

Ah. So a sound financial footing by (relative) luck? Up until then we’d lost more money than ever before.

I would say, however, that since selling Stones and the others that costs have been much more tightly controlled, certainly wage costs, because we’ve been implicit and set in how we recruit and presumably haven’t been paying players from L2 and lower (Scotland) anything like we paid say Iain Hume

 

Well I'll help you out so you don't have to make them.

I'm 53, and have been going to Oakwell since 1978, so have seen us in all 4 divisions.

I don't have any expectations, just concerns as to what the future will bring in terms of level we operate at.

I don't see that expressing those concerns makes me easily disappointed or setting my sights too high.

It's just a topic worthy of debate I think, given where we are currently.

 

You make a fair point. Mr Cryne did have to subsidise the club during his tenure. However, that £9.5m covers the 13 years from 2003 to 2016, and it is dwarfed by how much would be needed to make us competitive in the Championship. From example, one of the Wednesday subs cost an estimated £10m and is on £2m per year in wages. Those figures scare me, and quite rightly so, in my opinion.

 

I agree that it is a topic that is worthy of debate, and that is what I was attempting to do. I am almost 67 and watched us since 1965/66 season. In my second season, after 10 games, we were 92nd. I apologise for making assumptions, but I do believe that our expectations are guided by our past.

 

IMO we will get 14 points which would take us to 42 points and that won't be enough. I think we're going to need 48 points to be certain of staying up. One thing is for sure, we must stop with this cautious approach particularly at home, if that means going slightly gung ho then so be it, draws are no longer good enough!

 

Personally i am already looking forward to the open top bus parade at the end of next season when we trounce league 1 with 174 points, scoring 368 goals and conceding only 2.

It will be a sight to behold

 

I'm not sure that the squad have yet realised the reality of our situation. Yesterday against that much weakened Wednesday side represented a good opportunity to get another win on the board. It required a fighting for our lives type of performance. What we got was quite good - especially in the first half. But it wasn't all out. Just six wins from 31 games is not the sort of return to keep us up. My own view is that we need to play Moore and McBurnie together in combative roles. The teams around us - like ourselves - are only League One standard. So I'm afraid we have to resort to those tactics to try and force some results. That really means wins. We are simply not equipped to out-football the better sides in this league - many of whom we have still to play.

As for the future, we are simply not going to land in a mess, whatever the level of investment. The resources of those who have taken over the club are such that a failure on financial grounds will only come about if they are prepared to let it happen. It's hard to imagine that they have invested their money (small change to them) to let that happen. Progress will need substantial investment, and progress includes stabilisation in the Championship. Our views will matter not a jot. It's down to what they are prepared to do with the club.

Mr JLWBigLil: I salute your optimism. You are quite right - we are not down yet! I think that those of us with a more pessimistic outlook are simply trying to insulate ourselves from the inevitable disappointment we will feel should relegation occur. We still all want the same for our club. Here's hoping your optimism proves well-founded. The manager/head coach appointment process is huge at this stage. Within the first six weeks of this year, Gauthier Ganaye has become the most important person at our club.

 

45 needed imho

 

Nowt personal, old mate, but can you salute like Beyonce?

 

The best bit for me is that a billionaire businessman that already owns a football club, and his international business colleagues have bought BFC without realising what the running costs could be.

 

Crikey! Only in my younger days, I fear!

 

Makes you wonder how they've managed to get on.

 

My exact phrase was, "I am more concerned that when the real cost of football club ownership become apparent, they might quit the ship, leaving it to sink". You have interpreted that to mean running costs. It does not. It means the cost of establishing a team in the Championship and the cost of chasing a place in the Premier League. As I have said before, no-one is making money from football in the Championship. To make money out of football you must be in the Premier League. There is no evidence thus far that any of the policies that we operated under the Cryne family control have changed. On the contrary, all the evidence suggests that THE PLAN is still in place. That does not suggest that our new owners are chasing a place in the Premier League, and indeed it looks very much as though we will be in League 1 next season. As you and Conan point out, I have very little evidence for my views, but equally you have given me very little evidence that sticking your heads in the sand and playing merry hell when the worst happens represents a better alternative.

 

And if you bothered to listen to Chien Lee he said that relegation wouldn't be an issue as they were here for the long term. So it's fair to say that they've done their due diligence. As others have quite rightly stated, you come up with some bizarre thesis and extrapolate it it into facts in your mind to reinforce your prejudices. It's quite difficult to counter a fantasist such as yourself.

 

What was Mr Lee's exact quote please?

 

I reckon 10 teams up to QPR are still involved at the bottom next Tuesday is not quite do or die but a free week to get ready gives us a big advantage over Burton. Would take 47 points and hope for the best.

 

I'm sorry, I must have missed that.

I'm also not sure where I have mentioned that relegation would be an issue for our new owners. I suspect that it would not. My comments about our new owners have been to do with them making a return on their investment and being able to do so below the Premier League. I do not dispute that if we are relegated, that we will bounce back, in fact I think that that is probable. However, it will be more difficult to establish ourselves in the Championship, and without a change in policy, it looks as though we will yo-yo between League 1 and the Championship.

I do not, and never have presented anything as fact. What I have done is I have presented some ideas which I believe are worth debating in the hope that others might think they were also worth debating. These ideas were not facts and were never presented as such. I have been at pains to point out that my ideas were not facts at every stage of the process of debating them, and your insistence that I am presenting my ideas as facts, when I have denied that they are facts at every stage is also bizarre. I can only guess that you do not understand the process of debate. One of the key elements of debate is that you are debating the idea and not the person who presents the idea. I have no problem if you think that my idea is not worth your time. You just ignore it. You discuss something that you would rather discuss. You move on. I suggest that you do so.

 

You seem to be suffering from Hemsworth Tyke syndrome.

Which is to say that irrespective of the content of your posts, the hackles of a percentage of posters are immediately raised when they see your name, and an attack mechanism is triggered.

I would not bother spending too much time in the business of self-diagnosis. Your observations upon the concept of debate seem accurate enough to me.

 

There seem to be one or two playing this "you are stating opinion as fact" card on here of late. This is a fans' debating forum, so I would have thought the default position is that most statements on here are expressions of opinion. If they were anything more it wouldn't really be a debate, would it? If I believe I am saying anything more than opinion I usually preface that part with "it can not be disputed" or something similar. I like to hear Red Rain's views - they are often unorthodox and a good starting point for debate. Unfortunately, instead after a month of random posts from others with the name of suggested transfer targets we are now getting a period of random suggestions for new head coach, none of which will have any influence on the powers that be (i.e. Gauthier).