It might seem like I'm picking on you Mr Cloud but I don't think that anyone would have written off any particular loan player that came our way. There are one or two who are entitled to think that we ought to be plunging our own developed youths into the fray, rather than polishing the uncut diamonds belonging to other clubs. Some abhor the loan system outright. There's a principle to argue about. We'd be struggling though without the loan system. We seem to be able to make it work in our favour, because we develop those entrusted in our care. And Williams and Barnes have been essential to our team.
I think you mistake over reliance on loans to using the loan system well. What would you say ugbo and Gardiner have contributed thus far?
It's just that I clearly remember the likes of Conan Troutman saying it would be a disaster to rely on a midfielder from Everton with no league experience.
Mmm..well he probably said there was "no chance" of him doing any good. Williams is growing into a boss before our eyes. Though it could have been a disaster tbh.
I think there is plenty of time for Ugbo to contribute , like he did away at Millwall , however , with the system we tend to operate, he has by & large found it hard & has struggled, with Gardiner , we know he has the pedigree but has been dogged with injury , which is not his fault & hopefully now he has been back in the picture today , he will continue to recover & begin to contribute. What I do not understand about the cynicism of us using the loan system ,is that whilst like permanent signings , not everyone comes off , but because they are loans , fans are reluctant to cut them any slack & if they do fail , they go back to their club without costing us & if they are successful , we have benefitted by there contributions on the pitch. I suppose its all swings & roundabouts
The cost comes in the form of not developing our own players Kay and Brown. It takes a year of opportunities out of their reach.
In fairness , Brown has been injured up till the last 2 weeks & which loan player has kept Kay out of the team ? Another question , do you think we would have done better with Kay & Brown ( allowing full fitness ) in the team , as opposed to Williams, Barnes or the occasional cameo from Ugbo ?
I think Barnes and Williams are well worth a place in the team. Given the contributions of GG and Ugbo I think there would have been no difference if we had developed our own players rather than loaning them. I don’t think Brown or Kay are good enough yet to start but they are good enough to be in the squad. We have wasted too many players over the years by never playing them and bringing in loan players.
I know what you are saying, its a balancing act , we would all love see eleven lads coming through & occupying first team places , but today its not a level playing field & we have to complete our squad the best way we can & I maintain without the loan players we used two years ago , we would not have got promoted & if we had not used them last year we would have been relegated , but its just my opinion
Would be nice if the new owners came in and wanted to spend abit try sign Barnes and Williams on permanent but doubt lecstier or Everton would want to part with either. Even if they did we would be forking out quite a few million can dream anyway.
I have to say that when Barnes was signed I thought, what do we want ANOTHER winger for? Got that wrong didn't I?
To be fair even when signing loans, Jared Bird, one of our own, has come in at times and done very well. The opportunities are still there even if we sign loan players
I can understand his statement. Not so long ago we used the loan system at seemingly random times just to make the numbers up with no real thought on how it could affect our season. Now we seem to be using it much more wisely. More homework and as we've been such a raving success with young players and development, we also seem to have access to a bigger and wider talent pool. So at the minute one or 2 might not work but it's being used to our advantage much much more. Right now after the last couple of sets of loanees I'm completely ok with it. Before I was frustrated and questioned it.
Similar qualities? I think they’re very different types of player. I prefer Barnes but Kent offered a lot more defensively
Kent offered a lot more defensively? I’m not sure about that. I don’t think either of them offer much help to their fullback but when Barnes is contributing the goals and assists that he is, it doesn’t matter as much I’d say. Isgrove is the winger that works hard defensively in my opinion.
I thought Kent offered nothing defensively Barnes offers little more but impacts the game at the other end far more
Hammill is the winger who helps the most defensively without a doubt. I remember someone saying on here when we had Elder playing and he was struggling, he had Kent in front of him. When Hammill came on, he looked much better. Against Newcastle on the last day, clearly great quality opposition, but the first goal Elder was left 2 on 1 against Atsu and Perez because Kent hadn't tracked back. He had no chance